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17 lb pirogue.......maybe

jdupre'

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2007
2,014
3
South Louisiana
#1
Herb Cottle's 17 lb pirogue has been calling to me. It's one of those things that I HAVE to do.............no choice.....gotta do it. I went to Lowe's and got a couple of 1x6x8' clear western red cedar boards. Brain fart...........should have gotten 3. Picked up a roll of aluminum flashing 14" x 50' and some 5/8" wire nails to nail the aluminum to the cedar frames. That's what Herb recommends. This evening I ripped out the frame members, scarfed them and glued them up with thickened epoxy. Left full 8' pieces for the center of each chine and gunnel and scarfed short pieces on each end. More joints but safer bending.

Weight so far is probably about 8 lbs being that the roll contains over twice what I'll use for the sides.



Basically the only other things to add to that would be the bottom, glass and epoxy for the side/bottom joint and epoxy coat for all the wood parts. Herb uses luan ply but I'm undecided on that . I might just use some exterior ply. The weight might go up to as high as a whopping 25 lbs. :shock:

The write-up on the build said that the boat is surprisingly robust and quiet with the wooden floor and frames deadening the aluminum.



Joey
 

jdupre'

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2007
2,014
3
South Louisiana
#2
I worked until 3:00 this evening, came home and did some more on the pirogue. Ripped the rails to the final 1 1/4" width, cut them to length and bent them on the work table. 3" reverse curve should give a decent amount of flair. I cut and fit the stems and just rough cut the short uprights.





I left the rails and the uprights long so I do some refining tomorrow evening after work.

Joey
 

jdupre'

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2007
2,014
3
South Louisiana
#4
BB, it stirred my interest so I'm giving it a shot.

The last pic was with the stems at 45* angle. Somehow it just looked too severe so I eyeballed a more pleasing angle. Measured it after the fact and it was an 8 3/4" cutback as opposed to the 12" cutback ( 45*) . After work I mixed a batch of thickened epoxy and glued up the rails and uprights.



The old pile of bricks I found when I moved here really came in handy.

Joey
 

beekeeper

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
1,402
13
#5
Joey a "heads up" maybe, more of a question.
If your side framing is 12" wide, and you have a "3" reverse curve" (15" total) will the 14" flashing be wide enough without splicing?
I'm guessing 12" sides, because of your statement that the 12" cutback for the stem was 45 deg.

beekeeper
 

jdupre'

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2007
2,014
3
South Louisiana
#6
Hey JD, no problem with the heads up. Glad you have my back.

The sides are 10" and the reverse curve was actually upped to 4" thinking I might lose a little curve when taken off of the form. Nope. Stayed right there at 4". That ought to allow for even more flair. My pirogue had 10" sides and went through some truly seat-sucking conditions.









Should be plenty wide enough. In fact, Herb keeps the edge of the aluminum back 3/8" or so from the gunnel and the bottom chine, so the 14" flashing should be plenty.

The frame tips the scales at about 3+ lbs. Say 7 lbs for the two sides ...... plus 3.5 lbs of aluminum and nails..........leaves 6.5 lbs for 12+ feet of bottom ply and epoxy to saturate all the wood and a little glass along the edges.
Hey, 17 lbs just might be possible. I can always add 3 or 4 lbs of glass and epoxy to beef it up later.

Joey



Joey
 

beekeeper

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
1,402
13
#7
You will probably be OK with the 10" wide sides. The more you flair the sides the less side depth you will have. The bottom panel on my current boat is only 8" wide flaired to almost 30 deg. Have not been in any serious waves but in normal use water does not come onto the tumblehome panels. If the depth of the boat is not enough for you a tumblehome, or top rail could be added.

beekeeper
 

jdupre'

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2007
2,014
3
South Louisiana
#8
Bee, my kayak has 8 and 1/4" sides and I very rarely see water coming over them. I did give a bit of thought on making a spray skirt for the whole top of the boat. Maybe something that would hook over both stems and cinch down around the gunnels with a drawstring type of arrangement. Maybe add a few lightweight bows for support athwartships . ( Betcha don't see THAT word used every day. ) :roll:

But, heck, I have a kayak for bigger water. I'm planning on using this pirogue for a comfortable fishing platform, a roomy camping boat and taking my wife out for a little sightseeing.

Joey
 

jdupre'

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2007
2,014
3
South Louisiana
#10
Will do, Mick. I needed a way to apply an epoxy saturation coat to all the nooks and crannies of the side rails ...all at the same time. This is what I came up with.



The other rail is clamped and drying in the form. Going to town this evening to get a sheet of ply for the bottom. I'll probably go with luan, in keeping with the lightweight concept of this design. I'll probably go with a 24" bottom or ??...... depending on the amount of flair and rocker I end up with. I'm not caught up on having "X" amount of flair or "X" amount of rocker. Decent flair and 3/4" to 1and 1/4" or so of rocker is my goal. My builds have so far been designed a bit on the fly. Part of the fun, I guess. :)

Joey

Experimental boat building is not for the faint of heart..... but it's 8)
 

jdupre'

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2007
2,014
3
South Louisiana
#11
I found some plywood at Lowe's that I had never seen before. It's called RevolutionPly. Really nice stuff. $13.00. Typical 3 center plies with thin outer plies. The inner plies look to like real wood...not filler. The face veneer is defect free and has a nice grain pattern. Closest I could measure, the outer plies are about .015".....about the same as 6 sheets of notebook paper. Careful sanding is in order.

http://www.patriottimber.com/revolutionply.htm

The bottom panel glass patch butt joint in curing. The grain pattern is very attractive under the epoxy.

Joey
****************************************
 

jdupre'

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2007
2,014
3
South Louisiana
#12
This is the RevolutionPly panel I'm using.



At first I thought it was "too perfect".... maybe a painted on finish. Under high magnification, you can see the individual fiber lines in each grain line.

This is how you use up all those tiny pieces of glass cloth.





Joey
 

beekeeper

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
1,402
13
#13
jdupre' said:
I found some plywood at Lowe's that I had never seen before. It's called RevolutionPly. Really nice stuff. $13.00. Typical 3 center plies with thin outer plies. The inner plies look to like real wood...not filler. The face veneer is defect free and has a nice grain pattern. Closest I could measure, the outer plies are about .015".....about the same as 6 sheets of notebook paper. Careful sanding is in order.

http://www.patriottimber.com/revolutionply.htm

The bottom panel glass patch butt joint in curing. The grain pattern is very attractive under the epoxy.

Joey
****************************************
How thick? How much does it weighs? Water resistant?

beekeeper
 

beekeeper

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
1,402
13
#15
I have used flashing material very little (none for boat building), but I keep wondering if there will be any issues with it forming to the side frames because of the extra flair you have added. Plywood can be tortured (some) in multiple directions. I don't know what forces are created when flairing the sides, or if the flashing will work under those same forces. I'm not saying there will be problems, just thinking. I would look at that befor I commited to the added flair.

beekeeper
 

jdupre'

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2007
2,014
3
South Louisiana
#16
The flashing will be cut to the shape of the side rails..... curves and all. From there, I don't thing it will encounter any tremendous strain to the final pirogue shape. My only concern is the rails being able to make the curve. Already committed ..... the curves are glued into the rails. We'll see.

Joey
 

jdupre'

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2007
2,014
3
South Louisiana
#18
Not sure I follow you, Ron. The rails are glued up in the final arc shape. I'll lay a rail on top of the aluminum and trace around it. Then I'll trim the aluminum 3/8" or so back from that line on top and bottom and maybe 1 and 1/2" from that line at bow and stern. Run a good bead of thickened epoxy on the rails and tack on the flashing. Then, cross my fingers and bend the whole mess into a pirogue................or so I hope.

Joey
 

john the pom

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2007
345
1
Queensland
#19
Hey Joey,
Just thinking that the outside of the wood will want to stretch more easily than the aluminium. Think I'd be inclined to put the curve into the wood first. Just a thought.
Cheers John.
 

tx river rat

Well-Known Member
Feb 23, 2007
3,043
2
Waco Tx
#20
Ok let me try to explain , go ahead and cut your flashing to shape ,install your wood and then after you have done that glue on your flashing.
I am afraid if you go ahead and glue it on it is going to work just like the backing on a bow and really make you compress the wood to get the bend.
Ron