Intro and new boat build

[Kudzu]

I have been reading this a while now and thought I would step from the shadow and show my latest project. I have scanned the rules and didn't see anything about this but wanted to up front and let you know I am commercial builder. Just a small side business but don't want to come across as if I am just hear to promote my company.

With that said, I will show you my latest project. I am primarily a Sea Kayaker, I like paddling distance. I do on occasion like to fish and I just don't care much for canoes. I built a skin on frame canoe a while back and it's great for fishing but I don't like paddling it that much. I have dreamed of a skin boat that was a sort of Recreational style but specifically built for fishing. It has taken me 3 version but I finally hit on one that I think will work.

This was my concept drawing, what I started with. It turned out to be to much Sea Kayak and not enough fishing boat. Just to small basically but it was a starting point.

My boats are built with plywood frames and cedar stringers running the length of the boat. I typically cover them with a polyester fabric that is then painted to water proof it. And no they are not fragile! They are actually quite tough. Here is the version 3 frame during construction.

After the frame is finished it is oiled, left to dry then I sew on the skin and shrink it. As you can see this one has a large open cockpit and 'well' in the back for the fishermans milk crate to store tackle and gear in.

Right now I have started to paint the hull and hope to finish that tomorrow. Then I can start rigging it out and take it out for some fishing.

In the last photo I am working on the trimming out the inside edges to hide the ragged fabric edges. Still have to varnish them and install them in the boat, along with painting the floor boards. I am not crazy about that color now that it is on the boat but I can live with it. Fish won't care.

 

[mike]

Very interesting build, unlike anything done here. I like seeing new (new to me anyway) builds. Thanks for sharing.

Mike

 

[beekeeper]

Nice looking boat. I know nothing about SOF boats, so a question please. You stated:

"My boats are built with plywood frames and cedar stringers running the length of the boat. I typically cover them with a polyester fabric that is then painted to water proof it. And no they are not fragile! They are actually quite tough. Here is the version 3 frame during construction."

If the paint fails, does the boat leak? I will ask first and save the "weight watchers" the effort, how long is it and much does it weight?

Thanks
beekeeper

 

[oldsparkey]

I have been reading this a while now and thought I would step from the shadow and show my latest project. I have scanned the rules and didn't see anything about this but wanted to up front and let you know I am commercial builder. Just a small side business but don't want to come across as if I am just hear to promote my company.

You might want to talk with "nobucks' here on the forum , his web site is http://www.blackdogkayaks.com and like you he makes the skin on frame kayaks.
We have a few more that like the skin on frame kayaks also.
I even would like to add that when they do a trip they post the trip results in the Trips Section so all of us can join in on the enjoyment with them ..Hint , Hint , Hint. :wink:

Chuck...............

 

[WDfrmTN]

My boats are built with plywood frames and cedar stringers running the length of the boat. I typically cover them with a polyester fabric that is then painted to water proof it. And no they are not fragile! They are actually quite tough.
....
After the frame is finished it is oiled, left to dry then I sew on the skin and shrink it.

First...WELCOME!

Second...your construction sounds much like "stick & rag" aircraft building. What type of fabric do you use?

 

[Kayak Jack]

<SNIP>.your construction sounds much like "stick & rag" aircraft building. What type of fabric do you use?

The aircraft industry borrowed a lot from boat makers. Stations in aircraft (vertical plane) are even labeled as "waterline" stations. Construction is very similar, with ribs, longerons, formers (bulkheads), etc. You nailed it quite well, Bill.

 

[Kudzu]

If the paint fails, does the boat leak? I will ask first and save the "weight watchers" the effort, how long is it and much does it weight?

Most likely not. The paint, at least the first coat soaks in the fabric, so you are just about going to have to tear the fabric to have a leak. I have run these boats over rocks, trees, sand, gravel and never had a problem.

I am expecting this one to weight in around 32 lbs. I will put it on the scales today probably.

Second...your construction sounds much like "stick & rag" aircraft building. What type of fabric do you use?

Very similar to aircraft construction. The term Fuselage Frames is an aircraft term.
Skin is a heave Dacron, similar to what is used on planes but much heavier.

I should be able to get this thing finished this weekend.

 

[WDfrmTN]

If the paint fails, does the boat leak?
Thanks
beekeeper

With shrunk Dacron, it shouldn't leak even without paint. But, the first coat on Dacron (at least in aircraft appliacations) is a saturation/sealing coat that soaks into the weave very well. After that you'd have to cut or puncture the skin for a leak - in aircraft we actually have to install vents to keep the condensation controlled in fully enclosed areas.

 

[WDfrmTN]

Second...your construction sounds much like "stick & rag" aircraft building. What type of fabric do you use?

Very similar to aircraft construction. The term Fuselage Frames is an aircraft term.
Skin is a heave Dacron, similar to what is used on planes but much heavier.

Sounds great! (Beats the heck outta muslin and nitrate & butyrate dope!)

 

[Kudzu]

Finally, it is out of the shop and ready for the water. Unfortunately this stormy weather is not cooperating in the latter. Hoping to get it out this weekend for a little testing.

Had a couple of details to attend too. I like to add a rub strip on the bow so I can beach the boat without worry. I used a cheap plastic cutting board, cut it into thin strips.

I painted the floor boards red just for a little contrast. I need to drive in the screws to hold it in place still.

Here she is with the rod mounts in place.

Now it is just a matter or waiting on some decent weather to see how it paddles. Maybe the wind will die down this afternoon for a while but I am not counting on it.

 

[Kayak Jack]

You can obviously twist around to reach behind you much better than I can. I wouldn't be able to reach either rod, let alone access the basket.

 

[jdupre']

Sleek looking craft, Kudzu. Looks to be a real comfortable fishing platform. As far as durability, check out this video of a SOF kayak being put to the test. Impressive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYyvIExWkqU

The only problem I see with the SOF boat is mud and debris getting into all the nooks and crannies and possibly rubbing a hole in the fabric.

Fine looking boat.

Joey

 

[Kayak Jack]

<SNIP> The only problem I see with the SOF boat is mud and debris getting into all the nooks and crannies and possibly rubbing a hole in the fabric.<SNIP>

Do some builders of skin-on-stick boats sometimes install a pad in between the outer skin and stress points on the frame? Particularly along the bottom? A good washing w/soapy water, sloshing around the inside, and a thorough rinsing would go a long ways to helping, I'd think.

We now use boats like this along sandy shores. Where these boats originated, there were NO sandy shores with which to contend. They were more worried about attacks by wallrii (more than one walrus?), icy water and chill factor, and getting blown out to sea. Just minor considerations compared to the heartbreak of sand in your boat.

 

[Kudzu]

Finally got the power back on and feeling somewhat normal around here again.

I one boat I have drug in lots of mud and dirt and it has never been a problem. The fabric skin is tight against the frame so it is not like it is rubbing against the grit. I would image my heels resting on the skin are worse on it than anything but none of my boats show any sign of wear. The fabric is anything but fragile. I do rinse my feet by sloshing them around in the water before getting back in but sand and dirt always get inside.

I have heard of a few people that will add a strip between the frame and the final skin but I don't see any real advantage. If you damage a skin it is probably going to be on the outside and strip inside isn't going to stop any damage. The only thing that scares me is metal. A piece of sharp metal could puncture the skin. Since we have been without power I went paddling one day and went past some boathouses that were leveled by the storms. I stayed clear of them because of the metal roofing or siding that could be under the surface. Other than that there isn't much around here I worry about.

 

[Kayak Jack]

Well, skin-on-stick is proven technology, kinda. :wink: It's only worked a few thousand years now. S'pose we should test it some more before we certify it as OK?

 

[Kudzu]

Stormy weather was MUCH worse than expected. We finally have power again and getting back to normal here. Since there was nothing we could do during the time the power was out Dan and I decided to go fishing. I figured it was a perfect time to test Cast Away. We launched at a State Park among all the downed trees.

As I paddled around I snapped a photo to show the space in the boat. It's open and easy to store gear at you feet or place a fishing rod in the center of the boat while you paddle.

Dan snapped a couple of photos of it on the water.

How does it paddle? In a word, I'M IMPRESSED! OK, that is two words but I really was impressed with it. I built 3 frames before I skinned this one, the previous 2 were not right. After paddling this one I know I made the right choice by not compromising.

Lets start with what I don't like first. I am not a big fan of open cockpits, because I paddle with a Greenland Paddle and they drip water like crazy. I was wet most of the time because of the constant stream of water off the paddle. A Euro paddle with drip rings would fix that, I just don't own one but I will! It would be a much better choice for this boat. Because of the constant dripping I had water inside the boat and I discovered the coamings prevent a lot of water from draining out when you flip it over

Very easy boat to paddle, it just cruised right along, but when I tried to pick up the pace it was like it hit a wall somewhere around 4-4.5 mph. I expected that so it was not a surprise.

It has very good tracking yet course corrections were easy. If you want to turn a little to the left you just leaned it to the right and it starts to turn.

Because it is rather high sided compared to my other designs I wasn't sure about how the wind would effect it. It was a little windy and there were some big gusts at times. While I could feel the wind pushing on the boat it still tracked straight. I could tell it was slipping just a little. All it took was to lean with the wind slightly and I could maintain my course.

Stability is good, should be no problem for anyone. You can cast and concentrate on your fishing and not keeping the boat upright. No problem reaching around to the get the rods or the tackle out of the milk crate. Keep in mind I didn't try to turn around, I just reached back and looked over my shoulder. Didn't twist around because the boat is not so stable it won't turn over!

I had hoped it was stable enough you could sit on the back deck and fish but that was not the case. I tried it but saw real quick it wasn't a good idea. It just raises the CoG to much.

Fishing out of it was great, very comfortable. Coaming was just the right height. Fishing was slow and I thought Dan was going go skunk me but I finally caught a few fish. This is what I was really wanting to catch. Love catching these guys on ultra-light tackle.

 

[Kayak Jack]

You look pretty comfy out there.

 

[mike]

If y'all take a look at Mr. Kudzu's website, he has some videos that might be of interest. This one caught my interest right off and I'll have to view the others, too. Poke Here. If you get a java script error message, just click on "OK" and the video will play. 'least it did for me.....

Mike

 

[Kayak Jack]

Pretty impressive. Here, in the Great Lakes area, we have lots of granite, gneiss, flint, quartz, etc., all of which produce sharp edges when broken. All rocks here have been broken - glaciers etc. do that sorta stuff. But, after seeing the abuse with a claw hammer, I can see the toughness of his nylon skin. Impressive.

 

[john the pom]

Damn! I was so close to building a sof and decided aqainst it on account of my belief that they were too fragile. I don't figure I would be likely to encounter anything that might rip one of them. 'Ceptin' mebbe a shark. Looks like my current project is not gonna be the last after all. Here I am feeling clever that the current one is gonna weigh about 35 lbs ish. Will you'all please stop giving me ideas.
Cheers John.