Update: Fiberglass woes

[spikec]

I'm right at the same stage VTFogg is with his. Got my bottom on yesterday -- glued/screwed it to the ribs and sides with about 1/2" overlap all around. I stuck a flush trim bit in my router, then cut all around the outside. Voila! a nice fitting bottom piece. I then took an 1/8" roundover bit and ran it along the edge, which put a round edge on it.
Filletted the insides, and patted myself on the shoulder for a nice day's work. Big mistake...

Today things did not go so well. I flipped the thing over, sanded the bottom, and then started glassing. Nothing I have read anywhere prepared me for the nightmare that glassing is. I mixed up a whole bunch of epoxy, rolled it on, and then started putting on the cloth. Glass work is very difficult for a beginner...by the time I got the cloth reasonable fitted, the plastic rolling pan I had the epoxy in began to melt. Steam all over the place! Anyway, after a few hours of mixing, applying/mixing,applying, and a whole lot of language not allowed on this forum, I finally got it all on. After looking at it a couple of hours later, I have a few questions...

1. Do I just add the secong coat of epoxy, or sand it first? Seems it would cut into the glass if I sanded first.

2. There are a few small bubbles, which I gather I must fill with a syringe?

3. There are a few "white" spots where the epoxy obviously did't saturate the cloth. It was already hard so putting more epoxy on didn't help. Should I sand through the cloth to get rid of these spots?

4. I bought the Raka kit for this project (1.5 g), and it seems like I'm going to run out. I have just about 1/2 of what I started yet, and I need to do two more coats on the bottom, plus glass the inside. Anyone have a good rule of thumb or wag on how much you need for each coat? And if I do run out, is it OK to use some off the shelf stuff from HD or Lowes?

Thanks again for your help. Sorry, no pics today; didn't want to nuke my wife's camera with my epoxy satured hands...

 

[stevesteve]

Hi Spike,

YOU ARE NOT ALONE !

You have just about described every single nightmare I have just had with my glassing... standby for advice from more experienced folk.

 

[dangermouse01]

Spike;
There is a time limit to when another coat of epoxy can be applied with out sanding to get a good chemical bond. I think it is under 72 hours, otherwise you will need to scruff sand to get a good mechanical bond. The time may depend on wether you have slow, medium of fast cure, check the RAKA website for time frame they recomend.

Wetting out glass seems like it takes alot of epoxy, second coat will take consideably less, third coat will take even less than the second coat.

Mix smaller batches of epoxy so that it doesn't start kicking off before you can get it on the boat. You have time to mix up another batch of epoxy.

Heres a link about fill coats.
http://clcboats.com/shoptips/shoptips_fiberglass_weave_filled_epoxy.php

After my second coat I lightly go over the boat with a carbide scraper and then give it the third coat. I use a squeegee and just put on a thin coat.

The white patch can be carefully cut out with a razor knife or scalpel (try not to cut into the wood to much) and then put a piece of cloth a little larger than your cut out over and epoxy. Feather the edges after with a scraper between coats of epoxy to get rid of the raised edge.

Ask for advice here before actually starting to glass the inside, it is a little bit trickier, but what you are learning now will help you with that.

Epoxy saturated hands are not a good thing, please make every effort to keep the wet epoxy off you skin.
Wear disposable gloves and remove any epoxy that gets on your skin before it hardens, GOJO, Fast Orange, isopropanal alcohol or vinegar will work.

DM

 

[VTFogg]

Spikec, don't worry too much - I'm still trying to get my bottom on! :?

 

[hairymick]

Hi Spikec,

You are indeed not alone. Here is a link to my first build. I experienced many of the problems you are and there is some very good tips and advice from Kayak Jack, Chuck and Matt throughout it.

http://jemwatercraft.com/forum/viewtopi ... c&start=15

I would recommend you take particular note of the Advice jack give on March 20 2006, re fibreglassing. (page 2) It is pure gold, especially for doing the inside.

Here are also a couple of things I have learnt.

After you have done all your filleting and sanding and are satisfied with your finish, coat the timber with epoxy resin and let it get dry to touch.

Within the allocated time limit for between coats, cut and lay your woven matt in place, smooth out any wrinkles etc and prepare everything you think you might need BEFORE you start to mix the epoxy. Try to cover every forseeable contingency.

Mix small batches of resin at a time. the resin I use is 3 to 1. so I mix 60ml of resin to 20ml of hardener.

I start in the middle of the boat and work out towards the ends and sides, using a disposeable paint brush and fome roller.

I use the roller to spread the resin and the brush to gentle the matt into place where it needs it.

get a good, soft blade squeegee. Use it to GENTLY wipe excess resin along the glass to keep it spreading.

by mixing small batches you can take your time (within reason) and get it much better than I did in the link I posted.

 

[Slammer]

DDDDEEEEPPPP Breath.........In..............Out!!!!!!

You are definitely not alone and seems to me your right on schedule.

Frustrating as hell isn't it!!!!!!! But addicting at the same time.... those gut wrenching feelings of "Am I doing this right?".

Here is my first build with a lot of rambling notes.... and great advice from the guys

http://www.neilbank.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2338

I find it useful to have a few beers while I work, made me not so dang apprehensive.

I also thought I was going to run out of epoxy, still have some left and may do some to day to repair a boo-boo from dropping boat (too many beers)

Good Luck

 

[hairymick]

Heya Slammer,

I just re-read your thread from start to finish. Brilliant stuff mate. That one is pricless and is well deserving of going in a hall of fame or something.

Any piccies yet?

 

[spikec]

Mick and Slammer, thanks for the advice. I wish I read through the whole thread before I started working on it today, but I cut and pasted all the good advice for my next project (the rowing shell for my wife).

I sanded the inside and started glassing it right about the time my oldest came home from school. I enlisted his help, and believe it or not, he took to it like a pro. (I have decided I suck at fiberglassing, but am resolved to learn how to do it properly.) He was able to figure out how to get it nice and smooth in no time, so while i mixed, he epoxied. He gave me the requisite ration of crap about how easy it was, and that I needed to "just apply an elementary knowledge of physics to the whole thing" (don't ask, he's at that age). In the end it came out pretty A-OK.

Anyway, I will get another coat on tomorrow, then sand some more. I know that from woodworking you can work wonders with a lot of elbow grease and a whole lot of sanding sheets. The good ones know the short cuts to avoid the time spent fixing stuff, but I'm pretty average at building stuff. Anyway, right now I'm feeling pretty good about the whole thing and can't wait to get it out on the reservoir. I have yet to see a handcrafted boat in this area and am psyched to show the thing off!

 

[Kayak Jack]

You guys are doing fine; don't get all het up. You can't do anything that can't be corrected with some sandpaper, epoxy, wood flour, & fiberglass.

The UGLIEST boat I ever saw a(right after my own) was at our Quiet Water Symposium here at Michigan State University. 1/2" plywood, 2 X 4's, hammer marks all over, saw cuts aborted mid cut.

I asked the guy at the display for the story. "My 5th grade shop class made it. And then, one by one, I took each one of them fishing."

"You sly SOB! You hooked every one of those kids - didn't you?'

Big grin, "Yep!"

The primary mission of a boast is to float. If it doesn't do that, nothing else matters. Anything more than that is gravy.

 

[Slammer]

Thanks Mick, My intentions are to copy past the good stuff and have it on one thread so the "bloucks" having trouble can read and breath a sigh of reief

sly.....your doing fine...I tell ya......should have seen the looks from my boys.....they gave me good 4th and 1st grade advice.........We as adults seem to over think things.

I'm typing with one eye closed cuz i've been doing honey does all day. Takes lots of beers to accomplish all she wants done.

slammer