I am planning on making my first pirouge soon. I would like to make one sizable enough for my wife and toddler as well as a day's worth of cargo. I plan on taking it on still water only. Any ideas on size? Thanks.
Matt
Matt
a full house...
- Thread starter onehappycampster
- Start date
You will have to post the gross weight of passengers and maximum intended load weight first.
Then decide do you want it stable and slow, or tippie and fast.
Then decide do you want it stable and slow, or tippie and fast.
Of course. Between the three of us we're looking at 320 lbs. With no more than 75# of gear. Just to ease the mind of my wife, we'd probably have to stick with slow 'n steady.
I built a pirogue for a man that weighted in at 340#, he wanted it for fishing in big ponds because he didn't like walking around the bank. Said it made him tired, :? Then it wasn't fun fishing anymore. He didn't want to fall out or fall through either, and wanted to be able to carry it by himself.
It takes 1 cubic foot of air to float 62.4 pounds, the boat weighed around 60 lbs empty, his tackle, drinks, and snacks were probably another 50-60 lbs. That put a gross weight of approximately
460 lbs. That ment he needed 7.37 cubic feet ( thats 12,735.36 cubic inches ) off boat just at the water line with no free board, ( free board - distance from the waters surface to the lowest point of the top side of the side of the boat. ) you know where the water starts to come over the side.
Well when a man that big moves so does anything he is sitting in. So he needed some freeboard.
Me not beeing a mathematician, I figured if I could fit a wooden frame 24 inches wide 12 inches tall and 8 feet long inside the boat that would be twice the minimum volume needed and all that extra room would be the freeboard I needed for him to move.
The length was 15 ft 4 in. The sides were 12 inches tall and cut straight ( like a Uncle Johns) this gave it some rocker in the bottom. The bottom at in the middle was 30 inches wide and spread to only 34 inches in the middle at the rails ( any more gave it too much rocker.
I put planks ( 6 inch X 8 ft cedar- 4 each ) in the bottom for him to sit on on top of the frames so he wouldn't knock the bottom out and made hin sit on the floor. It all worked out and he got what he wanted and had a stable pirogue and a good 4-5 inches of freeboard left.
Something like this may fit your bill.
Uncle John sells kits for pirogues, and a skiff your wife might like more. Jem Water craft has a lot to choose from also.
Good luck, hope some of this dribble helps.
It takes 1 cubic foot of air to float 62.4 pounds, the boat weighed around 60 lbs empty, his tackle, drinks, and snacks were probably another 50-60 lbs. That put a gross weight of approximately
460 lbs. That ment he needed 7.37 cubic feet ( thats 12,735.36 cubic inches ) off boat just at the water line with no free board, ( free board - distance from the waters surface to the lowest point of the top side of the side of the boat. ) you know where the water starts to come over the side.
Well when a man that big moves so does anything he is sitting in. So he needed some freeboard.
Me not beeing a mathematician, I figured if I could fit a wooden frame 24 inches wide 12 inches tall and 8 feet long inside the boat that would be twice the minimum volume needed and all that extra room would be the freeboard I needed for him to move.
The length was 15 ft 4 in. The sides were 12 inches tall and cut straight ( like a Uncle Johns) this gave it some rocker in the bottom. The bottom at in the middle was 30 inches wide and spread to only 34 inches in the middle at the rails ( any more gave it too much rocker.
I put planks ( 6 inch X 8 ft cedar- 4 each ) in the bottom for him to sit on on top of the frames so he wouldn't knock the bottom out and made hin sit on the floor. It all worked out and he got what he wanted and had a stable pirogue and a good 4-5 inches of freeboard left.
Something like this may fit your bill.
Uncle John sells kits for pirogues, and a skiff your wife might like more. Jem Water craft has a lot to choose from also.
Good luck, hope some of this dribble helps.
Personally, i think you are in skiff territory. More load capacity, more stability. There's lots of plywood out there. You only have one wife and child. Think about it. (gray haired) Piper
Ya might wanna look at JEM's -'mini skiff ', or Uncle John's ' bayou skiff '.
Their links are on southern paddler's home page.
And ol' sparkey has a whole post of his build of the bayou skiff.
Their links are on southern paddler's home page.
And ol' sparkey has a whole post of his build of the bayou skiff.
Here is the build on the Bayou Skiff.....viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7336
It is basically a Pirogue which has been widen out into a lot more stable boat which can be rowed , paddled , sailed or motorized. The capacity for the Bayou Skiff is 555 pounds.
It is basically a Pirogue which has been widen out into a lot more stable boat which can be rowed , paddled , sailed or motorized. The capacity for the Bayou Skiff is 555 pounds.
Thanks everyone. I've even thought of a punt-type boat.
http://www.boatplans.dk/boat_plans.asp?id=34
or
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/o ... /index.htm
I'll probably eat my words later but I plan on building only one boat so I better make the right choice once. I'm too poor to make the wrong boat the first time.
http://www.boatplans.dk/boat_plans.asp?id=34
or
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/o ... /index.htm
I'll probably eat my words later but I plan on building only one boat so I better make the right choice once. I'm too poor to make the wrong boat the first time.
Of the two boats, you may be a LOT happier with the first one. The second one is 20' long, and that would be a bear to paddle or row. It weighs 200 pounds empty, more with gear. Having another two additional men along to help get it on and off the water, would be a real plus. Second boat is meant, I think, to drift down stream, dragging a log chain to slow and control its speed, and is steered with a pole.
Others will add more thoughts.
Others will add more thoughts.
onehappycampster said:
Another idea might be two pirogues that nestle. Twice as much fun to build. Easier to paddle and load than a wider and heavier boat. Better suited if you ever go alone.
For another source of simple, affortable and easy to build boats look at http://www.gatorboats.com. No fiberglass or epoxy needed.
beekeeper
I think you could build the Duck works John a lot lighter with proper amount of bracing. If you used luan instead of 3/8th ply.
Seems like the description of the plans is a bit old fashioned thinking. Yes, that is the way they used to be built. But with good modern materials and the right weight cloth on the bottom a lighter build would last most of us a good long time.
I met a guy up here in north Missouri last year that used a long aluminum river john for fishing every where he went and he loved it. It sure is not going to paddle like a canoe but a lot of boats like this have been down a lot of miles of Ozark streams, round tight turns, over shallow riffles, and through long stretches of slack water. It surely was not a bad design for its day. I have thought about it myself. As big as it is you would have to get it a trailer to ride on. I would bet that river john would be easy to mount an electric motor on to make your fishing a little more effective.
That toddler won't be for long so think about three adults if you plan on making this the last boat you ever build. Don't be counting you chickens now though, if you have never built one and you do build one you just might get caught by the bug.
Tom
Seems like the description of the plans is a bit old fashioned thinking. Yes, that is the way they used to be built. But with good modern materials and the right weight cloth on the bottom a lighter build would last most of us a good long time.
I met a guy up here in north Missouri last year that used a long aluminum river john for fishing every where he went and he loved it. It sure is not going to paddle like a canoe but a lot of boats like this have been down a lot of miles of Ozark streams, round tight turns, over shallow riffles, and through long stretches of slack water. It surely was not a bad design for its day. I have thought about it myself. As big as it is you would have to get it a trailer to ride on. I would bet that river john would be easy to mount an electric motor on to make your fishing a little more effective.
That toddler won't be for long so think about three adults if you plan on making this the last boat you ever build. Don't be counting you chickens now though, if you have never built one and you do build one you just might get caught by the bug.
Tom
Okay, time to get nosey!onehappycampster said:
1. Height & weight of you & wife?
2. Just short "out in the day" trips, or "all day", or "float camping"...fishing? IOW, how much gear will you be taking?
3. What kind of "still water"?
4. You gonna pickup haul it or trailer it?
All three will determine overall capacity needed, which will determine size of boat needed (which will change depending upon style of boat). See a pirogue (of normal dimensions) will need to be longer than an equal capacity skiff or jon-boat, unless you add flotation (not hard), but the added flotation can make it ride higher and be less easy to handle. Skiffs and jon-boats generally have much more beam, and the sides can made a bit lower.
Thanks for all the input folks. I'm right at 6', my wife is 5'4". Together we weigh well under 300. We're both ultralight hikers so 75 pounds of gear will be about average seeing as much of the gear I use is multiuse gear for ALL my outdoor activities. The boat will be riding atop our Jeep...if It's narrow enough. That would be a huge plus. If not it can be hauled via pickup.
I've also been looking at building a couple of ScoutCanu's or ScoutYak's.
All input is welcomed and appreciated. Thank you all again.
Matt
I've also been looking at building a couple of ScoutCanu's or ScoutYak's.
All input is welcomed and appreciated. Thank you all again.
Matt
The skiff might be to short for the three of you at 13.9 feet but stable in the water , cramped at the best.
A Pirogue would be tippy and with a young one ( toddler) in there and it could be interesting since they do not like to sit still. The 16' Ozarks float boat appears to be a good compromise between the other two. It offers stability and more room ( length ) for comfort and gear.
A Pirogue would be tippy and with a young one ( toddler) in there and it could be interesting since they do not like to sit still. The 16' Ozarks float boat appears to be a good compromise between the other two. It offers stability and more room ( length ) for comfort and gear.
That boat was catching my eye as well. It calls to use 3/8" ply. What about 1/8" for the sides and 1/4" for the bottom? How to you think that'd impact the rigidness and durability of it?
onehappycampster said:
I have never made one but all boats can be modified to the builders liking..... The ones I make call for 1/4in wood and I use 1/8th in wood. Remember ... We build the boats to what and the way we want them , not what some salesman tells us that we want it that way or forget it......
If the boat call for 3/8ths all the way around I do not see any reason you could not use 1/4 in in place of it. Especially if you are going to do some fiber glassing to the outside to strengthen it and at lease to the bottom on the inside for additional strength and wear protection from walking on it. Later on if you wanted to add a motor a trolling motor on the 1/4 inch wood would work. Besides you can always beef up the transom if that thought enters your mind at a later time.
It would be possible to drop the estimated weight from 90 pounds to 50 or 60 by glassing the bottom and the inside of the bottom while making it from 1/4 inch wood.... Then epoxy saturate the rest to seal the wood and leave it natural or paint it.
There are a ton of modifications you could make , the trick is to figure out what ones you want to do before you start building it.... Believe me as you build it and time passes , YOU will be thinking ..... Why did I not do this or that..... One reason why most folks make more then one boat ..... THEY CAN ALWAYS BE IMPROVED........Especially in the builders mind.
The only bump or obstruction in the building process is in the persons mind about how he wants to build ( make ) the boat to meet his desires , use and likes. Sometimes it takes years before a person decides , other times there is instant response or progress. Both always provide some good boats for there enjoyment.
Ah yes...
I've already thought of some things to do differently.
On another note, what program do people use to view .hul files? I've downloaded several free plans but they're that format. I don't have a viewer that uses that format.
I've already thought of some things to do differently.
On another note, what program do people use to view .hul files? I've downloaded several free plans but they're that format. I don't have a viewer that uses that format.
onehappycampster said:
I have no idea , Most of us just look at the drawings and plans and then go from there , we are still sort of primitive , Ya know using the Club to whack the dinosaur sort of thing before we cook them. Only trouble is that dinosaur was not free , we paid for the license to hunt him so we could ask the outfitter /Guide questions. YEP....Even back then there was no free lunch. FREE Plans will cost more then anyone that you pay for , only one I know of that really helps folks is JEM Watercraft , the others are a rip off. Even with the consideration from JEM Watercraft I suggest that a person pays for the plans , you do get a lot more that way.
OK , All the Joking over with..... Free plans for the most are just that ....Free and not worth what you paid for them.....
If you are going to get serious then it does cost but remember the information you receive from the person you got the plans from is included and the information you get on here ......... :roll: for what ever it is ........ Is always free to a degree ,
anyway monetarily.
With the http://www.boatplans.dk/boat_plans.asp?id=34 with Morten Olesen ,which also includes the JEM Watercraft web site since he is listed there and even this one since JEM Watercraft is listed here to help folks you do get more bang for your buck as far as information goes...... Three web sites to ask questions on.....
Thank you again. You're a wealth of knowledge. I know I'm in the ranks of MANY knowledgable folks. I am being pulled towards Morten's Ozark boat. It looks that it will fit our needs. Thanks go out to you all.
Matt
Matt