I noticed in the fishing thread Bee was complaining about scratches, Question Bee. Do you put spar varnish on your boats? if so what kind.
Ron
Ron
Boat finish
- Thread starter tx river rat
- Start date
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Ron
I used Rustolelum Marine. I don't think the "brand" is the issue. My tracking mud (with sand and grit in it) into the boat, and my heavy feet act like 80 grit sand paper. I have not used the expensive brands, but I doubt if they would fair any better.
:wink: Swampwood won't let me borrow his kayak to run scratch tests. :cry:
beekeeper
I used Rustolelum Marine. I don't think the "brand" is the issue. My tracking mud (with sand and grit in it) into the boat, and my heavy feet act like 80 grit sand paper. I have not used the expensive brands, but I doubt if they would fair any better.
:wink: Swampwood won't let me borrow his kayak to run scratch tests. :cry:
beekeeper
Darrel made a believer out of me, after paddling with him and seeing him bounce of off rocks pull up on gravel bars ,mud and sand is easy use for us.
His Freedom has sat outside in the Texas sun for right at two years and looks good. and I watched him hit a rock in his new boat ,it put a pretty good scratch on the side but at the boat ramp he wiped his hand down it and it was gone. the Benjiman Moore spar varnish is hard as glass after it cures. All I will put on mine now.
Ron
ps I think the 25.00 is well worth the difference
His Freedom has sat outside in the Texas sun for right at two years and looks good. and I watched him hit a rock in his new boat ,it put a pretty good scratch on the side but at the boat ramp he wiped his hand down it and it was gone. the Benjiman Moore spar varnish is hard as glass after it cures. All I will put on mine now.
Ron
ps I think the 25.00 is well worth the difference
That's interesting. The Captain's spar varnish (supposedly with the best UV protection) is a soft varnish.tx river rat said:<SNIP> Benjiman Moore spar varnish is hard as glass after it cures. All I will put on mine now.
Reckon the use of a soft or hard finish depends on the substrate that you're using
A harder or stiffer substrate will fair better with a hard varnish, while a less stiff substrate will fair better with a softer varnish
Young's Modulus - a measure of stiffness - actually the ratio of stress to strain - is about 9 or 10 for wood and about 50 for glass reinforced matrix system
A harder or stiffer substrate will fair better with a hard varnish, while a less stiff substrate will fair better with a softer varnish
Young's Modulus - a measure of stiffness - actually the ratio of stress to strain - is about 9 or 10 for wood and about 50 for glass reinforced matrix system
I'm not sure if I understand what I think you're saying. Are you saying that the hardness of a coat of varnish is (partially? or wholly?) dependent upon the hardness of the surface upon which it is put?
seedtick
:? Could you say that in Red Neck (simple) terms? Thanks.
Ron
$25.00 per qt., pint, or what.
Jack
"Spar varnish(also called marine varnish) was originally intended for use on ship or boat spars, to protect the timber from the effects of sea and weather. Spars bend under the load of their sails. The primary requirements were water resistance and also elasticity, so as to remain adhering as the spars flexed. Elasticity was a pre-condition for weatherproofing too, as a finish that cracked would then allow water through, even if the remaining film was impermeable. Appearance and gloss was of relatively low value, in comparison. Modified tung oil and phenolic resins are often used."
Water resistance may not be a primary consideration when the varnish is applied over epoxy.
beekeeper
:? Could you say that in Red Neck (simple) terms? Thanks.
Ron
$25.00 per qt., pint, or what.
Jack
"Spar varnish(also called marine varnish) was originally intended for use on ship or boat spars, to protect the timber from the effects of sea and weather. Spars bend under the load of their sails. The primary requirements were water resistance and also elasticity, so as to remain adhering as the spars flexed. Elasticity was a pre-condition for weatherproofing too, as a finish that cracked would then allow water through, even if the remaining film was impermeable. Appearance and gloss was of relatively low value, in comparison. Modified tung oil and phenolic resins are often used."
Water resistance may not be a primary consideration when the varnish is applied over epoxy.
beekeeper
Right, UV protection is a primary purpose of spar varnish over epoxy.beekeeper said:<SNIP> Water resistance may not be a primary consideration when the varnish is applied over epoxy.
25 dollars a quart, all the varnish I had used was like Jack said soft, this stuff dries hard and from the way Darrels boat has weathered a couple years outside on the trailer the uv is also good.
Made a believer out of me.
I just bought a gallon yesterday to refinish some boats it was 68.00
Ron
PS we are using the gloss
Made a believer out of me.
I just bought a gallon yesterday to refinish some boats it was 68.00
Ron
PS we are using the gloss
sorry, didn't mean to confuse, try this explanation.....
put a piece of window glass on a mattress and step on it - it will likely break. That's an extreme of a hard layer on a soft or more flexible substrate
put a piece of glass on a flat tile floor and step on it -it will likely not break - that's an extreme of a hard layer on a hard or less flexible substrate
What i was trying to say was that a hard varnish on a hard substrate (like epoxy/glass) will last better than a hard varnish on a softer and more flexible substrate (like wood).
The converse is also true
as Beekeeper said, spar varnishes were originally designed to flex with the movement of the wood
put a piece of window glass on a mattress and step on it - it will likely break. That's an extreme of a hard layer on a soft or more flexible substrate
put a piece of glass on a flat tile floor and step on it -it will likely not break - that's an extreme of a hard layer on a hard or less flexible substrate
What i was trying to say was that a hard varnish on a hard substrate (like epoxy/glass) will last better than a hard varnish on a softer and more flexible substrate (like wood).
The converse is also true
as Beekeeper said, spar varnishes were originally designed to flex with the movement of the wood
We run sand mud grit rocks gravel . It is harder
And gives a good finish and shine . Look at the lady bug
Ron
And gives a good finish and shine . Look at the lady bug
Ron
beekeeper said:the sand and grit under my feet?
beekeeper
I rinse my shoes off as I am getting in the boat , it helps to save on the wear an tear to the inside bottom.
The flexibility of spar varnish can be attributed to two of the ingredients.
Resin. There are three types of resins used for modern spar varnish. The oldest and most flexible is phenolic resin. Alkyd resin is actually a polyester and has medium flexibility. Polyurethane is the least flexible. Most polyurethane varnish is actually a blend of alkyd and polyurethane resins.
Oils. The higher the ratio of oil to resin, the longer the oil. Long oils make the most flexible spar varnishes, the longer the better. Oil type is also important in another respect. Some oils resist the effects of water better than others. That's why tung oil is a highly valued ingredient for spar varnish. Pure tung oil is very expensive.
Benjamin Moore makes at least two spar varnishes - 440 and 441 - don't know which one Ron is using or the makeup of either varnish
Resin. There are three types of resins used for modern spar varnish. The oldest and most flexible is phenolic resin. Alkyd resin is actually a polyester and has medium flexibility. Polyurethane is the least flexible. Most polyurethane varnish is actually a blend of alkyd and polyurethane resins.
Oils. The higher the ratio of oil to resin, the longer the oil. Long oils make the most flexible spar varnishes, the longer the better. Oil type is also important in another respect. Some oils resist the effects of water better than others. That's why tung oil is a highly valued ingredient for spar varnish. Pure tung oil is very expensive.
Benjamin Moore makes at least two spar varnishes - 440 and 441 - don't know which one Ron is using or the makeup of either varnish
I think it was captions spar varnish , I ordered it online.
I dont know the whys and in and outs of the formulas I just know how it has held up on Darrels boat under just about as rough a usage as you can get.
I will look on the can and give you what it is.
Ron
I dont know the whys and in and outs of the formulas I just know how it has held up on Darrels boat under just about as rough a usage as you can get.
I will look on the can and give you what it is.
Ron
tx river rat said:25 dollars a quart, all the varnish I had used was like Jack said soft, this stuff dries hard and from the way Darrels boat has weathered a couple years outside on the trailer the uv is also good.
Made a believer out of me.
I just bought a gallon yesterday to refinish some boats it was 68.00
Ron
PS we are using the gloss
Ron dosent the amount of air space left in an oil based container as it gets used cause the paint to crust over? Be nice to down size the container as it is used....A gallon is quite a bit at one time...