Building an Uncle John's Pirogue

[gbinga]

Hello, all- I have received my plans from Uncle John and will start building a pirogue very soon.

This will be my third plywood boat, and I can see that it will be the simplest that I have built. The ones I've built previously were a Bolger Nymph (8ft long multi-chine stitch and glue dingy) and a Michelak Roar II (14ft multi-chine row boat). So the techniques and skills needed for the pirogue should not be a problem. I was wondering, though, if you folks would share some opinions with me.

First - The boat will be built of 1/4" three ply BC pine, or possibly of 1/4" luan. (needs to be inexpensive, won't be left in the water, probably won't be stored outdoors). Frames and stems will either be mahogany (I have some scraps laying around) or poplar if I decide to save the mahogany. I didn't buy the kit - just the plans.

On the previous two boats, I butt-spliced the plywood, rather that trying a scarf joint. Seems to work fine. I can see a couple of different ways that I could accomplish a scarf joint in the plywood, but I wonder if it is worth the effort on what I intend to be a paint grade boat. Opinions on that?

I figure the boat will get 6oz glass on the outside, a coat or two of Kilz primer, and a coat or two of Gliddon latex porch and floor paint. I've used the porch and floor paint before. Figure if it is meant to be rained on and walked on, it will probably do. Seems to have worked OK on the previous two boats.

On the inside, I am debating whether to epoxy seal and paint, or to skip the sealing and saturate the wood with turpentine/linseed oil/parrafin wax. I've used that mixture on tool handles and wheelbarrow handles, and it seems to do a good job of waterproofing and preserving.

My concern about encapsulating the entire boat is that nicks/scratches/ dings are inevitable, and that if water ever gets past the epoxy, it might be a long time before it got back out. Leaving the interior of the boat with a wax/oil finish might give it a better chance to dry while out of the water. Any thoughts?

Getting back to plywood, I have not used luan before. The stuff at the local home centers is three ply, plus what appear to be VERY thin face veneers. It is light, flat, and smooth. 1/4" BC pine is heavier, probably stronger, a little rougher (not bad if you flip through the stack and pick good sheets). Price is about the same. I think I just talked myself into BC pine. It's what I used before, and it seems to work OK.

Looking forward to participating in the group-

 

[oldsparkey]

I have built several of the Uncle John Pirogues and on the 1st one I tried the scarf joint without any luck so all of them have been butt jointed. All the boats , except one was made with the Luann.
1st one was the 1/4 and the rest the 1/8th inch with the last one out of red wood strips I cut out to make the boat.

I epoxy saturate the joint and then add a 4 or 5 inch piece of fiberglass and do both the inside and outside of each panel. I never have had any problems with the joints and the boat was fiber glassed encapsulated. This gives me the double glass layer of the joints , both inside and outside.

Personality with the Luann I like to epoxy saturate the wood before adding the glass. This does a couple of things. It reinforces the wood with the saturation coat and it gives the glass and epoxy something to bond to that has soaked into the wood. A good epoxy saturation does soak into the wood and adds that extra margin of protection.

Using better wood what you mentioned would be a good idea but with the Luann I like a back up for protecting the wood which is the epoxy and fiberglass.
To protect the bottom from serious damage some epoxy and graphite mixed and added from the water line down helps to protect the bottom from damage , does not make it bomb proof but sure gets close to it.

Looks like you have some decisions to make about how you plan on making the pirogue. :wink:

Chuck.

 

[gbinga]

Thanks, Chuck. I read your reply a while back and should have responded. I've been spending a lot of time on the forum and learned quite a bit from the posts I've read.

I should probably spend more time building and less time reading!

At this point I've milled the stems, ripped the material that I'll make the frames from, and rough cut the material that I will make the rub rails from. (Going from plans - not the kit). All the solid stock I'm using is mahogany left over from door jobs. I laminated some pieces to get stock the right size for the stems, and scarfed material to get the rub rails (just joining two eight foot sticks end-to-end, not as complicated as scarfing plywood). The frame parts were easy, just had to run them through the table saw a couple of times to get them to dimension. I still haven't settled on plywood, but I know a couple of different routes I can take that will be affordable.

I'm spending most of my time right now trying to give my employer his money's worth so I can keep my job. I work in the building materials industry, so I have my fingers crossed on that! We've laid off so many people in the last six months that I feel like the last man standing.

So far so good. I'll try to post some pictures when the thing starts to come together.

George

 

[gbinga]

Update;

The stems are milled and cut to length, the frames are assembled, and the plywood has been ripped to width and buttjointed. I went with glass inside and out at the butt joints rather than a splice block on the inside. That's what I have done on previous builds and it seems to work well.

I went ahead and ripped the side boards to width before splicing them. I figured it would be easier to make three separate joints (the two sides and the bottom) than to handle a 4ft by 16ft sheet of plywood. I've done it both ways before, and this is what I prefer.

The plywood I chose is the Ultraply XL that I described previously. Lowes sells it as "premium underlayment" for right around $20 per sheet. It is luan on one side, very pretty and defect free, with a light colored hardwood on the other side - looks like birch, but a much denser, harder wood than birch. Overall structure is pretty much like luan; three plys plus a thin surface veneer on both faces. It is remarkably void-free, comes from a US company, and they specifically state that the glues are waterproof (not "water resistant" like you see on luan sometimes). All in all, it is about what you would hope for at $20 vs. the typical $10.

It may be a few days before I start assembly, but I will post pictures once I have something to show.

George

 

[gbinga]

Progress! Got the sides assembled to the stems and frames. Not terribly hard with this plywood. Called my wife for reinforcement on the last stem connection, but I probably could have struggled through alone if I'd had to.

Here is a picture... let's see if I understand how to do this.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30266997@N ... 0/sizes/m/

 

[gbinga]

Ok - apparently I don't know how to post pictures. Here are links to my FlickR.com account; That should work pretty well.

Sides glued on, with frames in place:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30266997@N ... 0/sizes/m/

Stem detail; I used more screws than he said. Wanted to make sure.-

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30266997@N ... otostream/

Gluing in chine logs. What you see here is pine strips clamped to the outside of the hull to maintain a fair curve while I'm clamping and gluing mahogany pieces to the inside of the hull. The pieces on the inside of the hull will catch nails that will secure the bottom, and will take the place of the fillets and tape that is called for in the plans. I detest fillets and tape. Done two boats that way, and wanted to try something new.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30266997@N ... otostream/

Lots and lots of clamps;

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30266997@N ... otostream/

View from beneath; gives a better idea of what I'm doing;

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30266997@N ... otostream/

That is as far as I got tonight. More pics later.

George

 

[seedtick]

next time install the inside chines before you assemble the sides and the ribs.

That way you won't need the outside chine to hold things fair

Of course leaving the outside chine on will protect the plywood edges from getting dinged

 

[gbinga]

'tick,

That would make much better sense in a couple of different ways, and I thought about doing it the way you suggest. What stopped me was that I would have to make a notch in the rib sets right at the corner to make room for the chines, which meant that I'd have to make the ribs bigger to allow for the notch... it all started seeming complicated and I did it the way I did it.

Part of the problem was that I didn't make up my mind about chines vs. fillets until the last minute, and at that point I did not have a lot of choice, since the ribs were assembled and the the sides were on.

By the way, the outer chines aren't part of the boat. They are only there to keep the hull fair while putting in the inner chines. Once the epoxy has a chance to cure on the inner ones, the outer ones are coming off. I may have to add a couple of temporary bottom ribs just to hold proper shape until I have the bottom on.

I've even seen boats where the chine logs are intentionally put on the outside, and there is nothing on the inside but the cross frames. That would be an easy way to build, and would probably work fine in the water, but it seems kind of clutzy looking to me. And the pirogue is such a pretty hull shape that I want to keep it clean.

When you put the chines onto the side like you show in the picture, doesn't the side panel get awfully stiff? Seems like it would be a bear trying to bend that into place. Of course that's coming from an amateur who is used to working single handed...

Thanks for the tips! I've learned as much from reading this forum as I did building my first two boats.

George

 

[seedtick]

The sides in the picture are 1/4" marine fir. They will bend, use ropes or rachet straps.

Here's a couple of boats with outside chines,

first a pirogue

then a skiff

 

[seedtick]

forgot to mention, another option is to build with no side ribs

here's one in 1/4" plywood, the bottom rib, seat, chine, rails and bresthooks hold it open. BTW that's about a 35 degree flare on the sides , the UJ's I've seen look closer to vertical

here it is finished

 

[gbinga]

The outside chine boats you show in the pictures don't look bad at all. Maybe I'll try it that way on my next one. (That'll make FOUR boats in the basement. My wife is going to start beating me for sure.)

That last one - with no ribs - is a handy looking little boat.

I can't get over the cypress that you use. I've never seen it used for anything much more interesting than privacy fences. The color and the grain are incredible!

What sort of finish do you use on the exposed wood?

 

[seedtick]

the cypress you likely see today is what we call grow back or second growth cypress. The virgin growth cypress was essentially all harvested about a hundred years ago. The grow back cypress is about as fascinating as a pine 2 by 4. We harvest the old growth cypress by pulling up the sinkers, or logs that were not sufficiently dried out enough to float. The minerals in the water/mud/sand that the logs were buried in is what gives the wood it's color.

Because cypress is soft we like to epoxy coat it (West Systems) first then protect the epoxy with 5 or 6 coats of marine spar varnish (Epifanes).

 

[islandpiper]

ya, everytime i build a pirogue I dream that I could be doing that instead of building violins.....now, that would be fun The grass is always greener on the other side of the highway.

I've built a number of boats and owned twice as many and the humble pirogue is still my "almost" favorite. If you could swing down the companionway and take a hot shower and pour a Scotch it would be at the top of the list. But still, it carries easy, launches anyplace and paddles well.

Have fun with your new boat.

piper

 

[gbinga]

Big progress today.

Here is the stem / frame / sides assembly ready to have the bottom glued on;

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30266997@N ... otostream/

Here is the bottom with the outline of frames, chines, and stems traced onto it. I used the pencil lines to guide me in drilling holes through the bottom, so that I would know exactly where to put the nails once the bottom was on.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30266997@N ... otostream/

Here is the hull with bottom attached. I "buttered" all of the frames and the chines with thickened epoxy, carefully positioned the bottom, and then put a 7/8" bronze ringshank every three inches or so in the chine, frame, and stem locations.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30266997@N ... otostream/

And here is the hull upright, looking suspiciously like some sort of boat.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30266997@N ... otostream/

I hate the low quality of the photos I'm posting. I have compact fluorescent lights in the basement, and I suspect that they are confusing the focus on my camera somehow. Plus they aren't really adequate for the space to start with.

In any case, maybe tomorrow afternoon I can go to work with the sander!

 

[avantico]

Hello,

I am taking on my first Pirogue project. I built a flat bottom 4' x 8' skull boat last year and it was alot of fun and a great experience. I floated a local river and also attached a nice trolling motor onto it. The only problem I had with it is that it is so darn heavy for one person to drop and pull out of the water. The Pirogue looks like just what I need. I would like to know what degree of an angle that the stems need to be. I like that they are notched out for the sideboards to fit right in there. Does anyone know the degree that the stems need to be? I think I read somewhere 23 degrees. Any help is appreciated.

Thank you,

Brian

 

[bluegrasslover]

Hello,

I am taking on my first Pirogue project. I built a flat bottom 4' x 8' skull boat last year and it was alot of fun and a great experience. I floated a local river and also attached a nice trolling motor onto it. The only problem I had with it is that it is so darn heavy for one person to drop and pull out of the water. The Pirogue looks like just what I need. I would like to know what degree of an angle that the stems need to be. I like that they are notched out for the sideboards to fit right in there. Does anyone know the degree that the stems need to be? I think I read somewhere 23 degrees. Any help is appreciated.

Thank you,

Brian

Hey Brian,
Get yourself a set of plans from http://www.unclejohns.com/. They are very reasonably priced. Good luck!

 

[Kayak Jack]

Welcome aboard, Brian. Someone will come along soon and answer your pirogue questions.

That 4'X8' sounds like a real river horse to try to handle. You're a better man than me for taking on something that size. You're in for a real treat when you start looking at, and building, one of these streamlineder-type boats that are pointy ended. You are going to think you died and went to heaven. Close, real close.