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Carp poll revised.

Carp. (poll question fixed) Is it a Gamefish?

  • yes (poor man's bonefish. Challenging and fights hard)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • no (its a big goldfish...)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • not sure (never fished for one)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
Used to catch em as a kid with my best friend, then we had this giant stick (well it was giant to us we were about 12 years old and the stick was proly 6 foot :lol: ) anyways we called the stick the carp killer, you smash the carp in the scull, then throw em back in the woods. Not any good for eating, we had catfish for that. We were catfisherman by night (for food, we pretty much lived at his house on the creek out back) and carp killers by day. Good times Good times :roll:
 

Kayak Jack

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
13,515
96
82
Okemos / East Lansing Michigan
Beauty and the Trash

It seems to me that, we hoomin beans are kind of arrogant to consider anything of Nature as "good" or "bad". Cause, we're judging solely on whether or not we find it attractive or useful.

Indians thought the buff was beautiful, white hunters thought it trash. Vegetarians see animals as holy, meat eaters see them as dinner on the hoof.

It's just all in how a fella looks at things.
 

Swampy

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
1,736
0
Southeastern North Carolina
question: How many folks raise carp in their goldfish ponds?....

Who wants to look at a carp in a goldfish pond?

"If it looks like goldfish, tastes like goldfish, smells like goldfish, then it must be goldfish!"

I have seen carp in a goldfish pond... :shock:
but still don't know if they iz goldfish.

swampy
 

Swampy

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
1,736
0
Southeastern North Carolina
Jack, kio pools are many down here. What is kinda funny is when the winter temps go below 32 degrees. These pools need to be two foot deep (at least a section of it) so that the little fishes ( carps?) won't get their fins froze. Talk about dormant!
Are goldfish a sun fish? I don't think so, but not sure...

Where's Kahuna? He's the man with this knowledge!
swampy
 

Kayak Jack

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
13,515
96
82
Okemos / East Lansing Michigan
Swampus Dreericus,

"Pay attention there BOY! Ah say, Boy! Pay attention heah now. Ah'ma goin ta edjikatcha. This ain no chicken hawk."

Goldfish are a variant of carps. Don't try to diddle with it; just accept it and move on in your Life.
 

Swampy

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
1,736
0
Southeastern North Carolina
OK Foghorn, I hear ya.... don't accept it, but I hear ya. Recon I'll jest have to accept it anyways... dern! a goldfish huh? Next , you'll be telling me that perch and bass are from the same family.... :wink:

Now I'm ruined ! I can't go by the fish tanks at Petsmart with out grimmising... sorta like when I found out about Santa.... bummmer...
I need some coffee now and a shoulder to cry on.... :cry:

Some folks around here don't like to catch cobia from the ocean. They say it's the "cat fish" of the salt waters. But talk about a fight! :shock: and sum GOOD eatin off the grill! :eek:

Guess it's true... one mans trash fish is another man's treasure fish...
swampy :cry:
 

Oldtimer

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2004
143
0
Mis'sipy Delta--Temporarily
Swampy,

Trash or treasure, they ALL cost the same--no matter if you keep 'em or throw 'em back. Inventory your total fishin' investment and determine the dollar value, including boats, vehicles, campers, camping equipment, gasoline, oil--EVERYTHING used in the pursuit of fish. Then divide it by the fish you've caught. Truth be known, them suckers is th highest priced spread on th market. I doubt any of us will ever amortize out all that expense.

So, after you've figured your total investment, look the next fish (trash/game) you catch in the eye and go ahead......just go ahead 'n tell'im he's TRASH. :lol:

Oldtimer
 

Kahuna

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2003
608
0
64
DEEP SOUTHERN ILLINOIS
Carp, Koi, Etc...etc...(Here I is..KAHUNA)

Yes, Carp and Koi are related. I have Koi that are very beautiful and they live for many years , I've had mine for over 10 years. As long as the water doesn't freeze solid and there is a hole in the ice Koi are just as hardy as my favorite GAMEFISH the common carp. :D Carp are very good to eat as long as they are prepared properly. :D Kahuna
Swampy said:
Jack, kio pools are many down here. What is kinda funny is when the winter temps go below 32 degrees. These pools need to be two foot deep (at least a section of it) so that the little fishes ( carps?) won't get their fins froze. Talk about dormant!
Are goldfish a sun fish? I don't think so, but not sure...

Where's Kahuna? He's the man with this knowledge!
swampy
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Swampy said:
OK Foghorn, I hear ya.... don't accept it, but I hear ya. Recon I'll jest have to accept it anyways... dern! a goldfish huh? Next , you'll be telling me that perch and bass are from the same family.
Geez---I thought I'd never find anything that I knew something about on
this hyer board and then Swampus provides a straight line. Must be my lucky day. :lol:

Actually the Carp is a member of the same family of fishes as the minnows, the Cyprinidae. So Carp, goldfish or Koi they're all minnows when you get all the shucks off. :wink:

As for 'perch & bass' I'll assume you are speaking 'Southernese' and referring to sunfish and Largemouth, Smallmouth & Kentucky Spotted Bass. If so then yes they all belong to the Centrarchidae, or sunfish, family. The only true bass (Moronidae) native to freshwater in North America are the White & Yellow Bass. Stripers are an introduced saltwater specie and the 'Hybrid' is just that a hybrid of the freshwater White bass and the saltwater Striped bass. (Waiting on Jack to work his magic with the Latin name of the bass family)
The 'Hybrid' is a mule and cannot reproduce while the Striper reproduces minimally if at all and not at all in most areas in which it has been introduced into freshwater.

So Swampus you just ask away when it comes to little fishes. I'm also an expert on not catching them if you need any help in that area. :cry: Tom
 

Kahuna

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2003
608
0
64
DEEP SOUTHERN ILLINOIS
Carp Killers.....

You know...I must have missed this when it was first posted, how sad..... killing just for the fun of killing..what a shame.. what a waste. :cry: That goes against all written and unwritten rules of being an ethical sportsman...
:evil: I've taught my son different...Kahuna
despotic931 said:
Used to catch em as a kid with my best friend, then we had this giant stick (well it was giant to us we were about 12 years old and the stick was proly 6 foot :lol: ) anyways we called the stick the carp killer, you smash the carp in the scull, then throw em back in the woods. Not any good for eating, we had catfish for that. We were catfisherman by night (for food, we pretty much lived at his house on the creek out back) and carp killers by day. Good times Good times :roll:
 

Swampy

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
1,736
0
Southeastern North Carolina
When carp and lampray ells swept the Great Lakes way back in the 60s those two things were a killer on the sport fishing in that area.

I have read over the years that the carp is a "sporting fish".... my idea of sporting fish isn't about bottom feeding fish introduced to the fresh waters of America. The carp is no where near "sporting". No more sporting than wild dogs that tear up the deer population. Carp are trash fish. They distroy the coast line of our lakes even down here in North Carolina. They continually tear up the breading beds of our smaller sun fishes. They are repugnant and ugly. I don't think they make good fertilizer.

Sorry Mike, but carp aren't worth the problems they create north or south. Big money wants to make some think that it's a fisherman's fun to "tackle" these fish. Fishing magazines have published stories about this fish as if they are something great to catch. Try tossing out a rubber boot and drag it in for simular "fun".

Pike at one time had the nick of "trash fish", but never in the mind of those who catch them or eat them. Trash was put on them because of the bones in them... after tasting them, trashfish went into history. These nasty carp won't ever make it as true sporting fishes nor will they ever taste like fresh water fish that we do eat.

Getting carp and lamp ells out of the waters is a step to returning native fish into their waters.

Go for it and catch them all!

swampy
 

JEM

Well-Known Member
Pike are good eating!

We used to spear carp. Not much of a challenge really. Dad would smoke them in his special brine and put it through his self proclaimed "Secret Process".

Whatever he did, it was mighty tastey. But I think you could have put some possum through that process and it would taste good.

I remember being a kid and sticking my hands in the water. Dad would tell me about the time a lamprey latch onto his hand doing that. Might have been a fish story. :roll:
 

Kahuna

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2003
608
0
64
DEEP SOUTHERN ILLINOIS
Lets put it this way.....

I understand where you are coming from. I understand that carp are a problem in some parts of the country. Some people like carp to eat. I've had them properly prepared and they were very good. Okay...a carp is considered a trash fish in allot of places. Lets forget the carp.
Can you see I am having trouble getting across a point :oops: :?: I don't want Grasshopper to have this mind set when it comes to hunting or fishing to catch all you can or hunt all you can without regard to the consequences. Fish limits...slot limits...bag limits....not just killing for the sake of killing. Fishing for the sport...if you need some fish to eat fine, catch and release what you don't want. Or just catch and release for the sport and to enjoy the adventure of fishing and the outdoors. I've seen people catch a bucket full of bluegill. Nice size ones. Decide after they caught a bucketfull they were too lazy to clean them or give them away.. They just threw them back and most were dead rather than putting them back in right after they caught them. Forget the carp....but for what are considered game fish ,and game animals. Make any sense??
I caught a large carp on my flyrod last year...it gave one hell of a fight. In respect to it and the fight it gave me, I put it back in the water. I'll be damned if I would have stabbed it with a stick and smashed it's skull with my boot. Kahuna
Swampy said:
When carp and lampray ells swept the Great Lakes way back in the 60s those two things were a killer on the sport fishing in that area.

I have read over the years that the carp is a "sporting fish".... my idea of sporting fish isn't about bottom feeding fish introduced to the fresh waters of America. The carp is no where near "sporting". No more sporting than wild dogs that tear up the deer population. Carp are trash fish. They distroy the coast line of our lakes even down here in North Carolina. They continually tear up the breading beds of our smaller sun fishes. They are repugnant and ugly. I don't think they make good fertilizer.

Sorry Mike, but carp aren't worth the problems they create north or south. Big money wants to make some think that it's a fisherman's fun to "tackle" these fish. Fishing magazines have published stories about this fish as if they are something great to catch. Try tossing out a rubber boot and drag it in for simular "fun".

Pike at one time had the nick of "trash fish", but never in the mind of those who catch them or eat them. Trash was put on them because of the bones in them... after tasting them, trashfish went into history. These nasty carp won't ever make it as true sporting fishes nor will they ever taste like fresh water fish that we do eat.

Getting carp and lamp ells out of the waters is a step to returning native fish into their waters.

Go for it and catch them all!

swampy
 

Swampy

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
1,736
0
Southeastern North Carolina
Matt, that was no story... it was for real. Blood suckers... for real.

I can't imagine anyone liking the taste of muddy carp. They stink to high heaven.

I have caught pike and eaten them too. Very tasty and the bones ( to me) aren't that bad.... the taste is worth the bone battle...

swampy
 

JEM

Well-Known Member
I should clarify, we speared the carp for smoking and eating. We never speared and then then kicked it off just to stab something. Never speared more than we could eat.

The place where my Grandparents lived was out in the country along Lake Winnebago. You drove down the gravel access road about a mile, cutting behind the farm fields, to get to the stretch of 20 houses that lined the shore. When you cooked something up like a carp, it was for sharing with everyone.

That stretch of houses was a mix of year-round residents, retired or with no kids, and the weekend/summer visitors. There was no "locals only" mindset which was nice.

The "trash fish" around there were Sheaphead. Different from the saltwater variety. Truly a skunk-tasting meat and a bear to clean. I remember times when the game wardens encouraged catching and killing them because there was too many in the lake.

They kept a close watch on the balance of things and do a fine job to this day. Sturgeon spearing (through the ice for all you warm weather hicks :p ) gets shut down early many times because they get hit too hard too fast. Augh...the memories of ice fishing and the anual "butt slide" contest to break up the day.

Whew....talk about disgressing into memories!

With pike, we avoided the bones by learning the proper filleting technique through shamless harrassment when we ate them. It was bragging rights when you could do it right.
 

Swampy

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
1,736
0
Southeastern North Carolina
Mike I understand where yer coming from and respect the sportsman's ethics here.

Historicaly, carp have been a degrading fo the fresh water fishes around me. Their indroduction has ment the demise of many a fish.

Our youth need to preserve what little is left out here. Commercialization of fishing has brought the numbers that used to flourish down dramaticaly. Reading old Jesuit accounts of the 1600s showed that the native Americans would walk out on the ice and chop a hole in it and spear lake trout by the basket fulls. Needless to say those days are gone. With radar, deep trolling rigs and all that contribute to the taking of fish in large numbers and hidden spots.

Now our youth have what is left after modern technology and introduction of un-wanted fish. We have even wittnessed large fishing organization(s) have called for , and got, exclusions of fishing grounds so that their fishing tournaments can be done in waters holding "larger" fish. Which I find horrible to the locals and all who pay for fishing license to support national waters and inland waters fish.
What is left for the youth? Tales is all.

I can see from 30 years ago the size of the flatfish here. Some call them cod, flounder, flute fish. Used to I could go out and wade and gather a large fish or a number of fish for the family.... not any more. Not like 30 years ago. And even back then, guys would talk of the "good old days" where even larer fish were common. :cry:

The bluegill population here is almost gone. Credit that to trash fish introduced to the small lakes here. The many mile long cables that have cleared the oceans of swordfish have cut dramatically into their populations. Bass are cross bred to give "us" ( like I asked for it) hybreds that kill off other fish n the area. "We" want heavy weights... not good tasting fish. We want record book catches.... and I can't believe it is to eat. Most go into the ground for fertilization.

My dad taught me not to kill any animal unless I was going to eat it. That did away with sighting in on small birds ( for target practice). Pats, phesants, and guail were to be had. Armed with a single shot shotgun, me and others had to become good marksmen or go hungry. The introduction of auto loaders dropped the count of many a flock by people who couldn't shot if their life depended on it. Yeah, I know, now I'll hear the crys of the auto loaders.... Just what is sportsmanship? Is it the "doing" or the "successful" results? If one is hungry, taking an animal is fair no mater the means. If sportsmanship, then it boils down to taking the game in a way that is one chance with one bullet, one arrow at one time. People kill other hunters so that they can claim a prize rack, a sizable fish, or the chance to boast. The American eagle's life span was cut short for a long time because people ( not any way associated with hunting with ethics) shot and killed them.... even from airplanes. Fedral laws became a part of sportsmanship. Now we have rules up the yang, rules that forbid the typical hunter/fisherman from doing his or her "thing". Add PETA to this and today it is hard to rationalize a license to have fun.

Teach our youth to hunt/fish with the sole purpose of enjoying the game and the day. The event should emphasize companionship, the outdoors and a mano to mano on game, not numbers.

Books, magazines, and tourneyments have degrated our outdoor experinces to boasting and over kill. Who has the better gun, rod, rifle? Who has killed more, and more often? It is no wonder why we now have a PETA out there.... we asked for it and we got it. It's no wonder why we carry tackle boxes that the state has outlawed over a quarter of what is in them.

Clothers have reaped a huge profit on what our ansestors knew long ago. If cows were in the area of the hunt = dip your jeans and coat in cow chitt... if an apple orchard was near, dip them in apple juce and dry them out... now it's high definition and gland jucies. Infared goggles, telescopes with high powers, special loads. I see that many long for the old days and use fire arms of yesterday. The bow and arrow bring the hunter to the game in a more fair chance and better used skills.

I'm rambling on just to say that if the outdoors means anything to us, we had start looking at our ownselves to correct this plight. Sure, some will continue to kill for numbers and reputation. I just wonder who they think worship them? Not I.

swampy
Send all condensating mail to Chucky... :shock:
 

oldsparkey

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
10,117
62
76
Central , Florida
www.southernpaddler.com
Yep ... send it to chucky ... he will read anything.

Swampy

I like you was taught that when in the woods ... if you shoot it then you clean and eat it. So you better not shoot something you don't want to eat.

Also a single shot rifle was a lot better then an auto loader. I could take my single shot 22 and get almost anything that lived in the woods down here with it. Dad had an auto loader and using it one day I sure wasted a lot of ammo while hunting, went home cleaned that rifle and hung it on the wall, from that day on it was the single shot for me till later in life when I got a Marlin, lever action 39-A , 22 cal , for hunting. I still have it.
That one has gotten tree rats, turkeys, deer and hogs, not quite legal for shooting deer but it sure drops them. Which brings up another thought.

Folks go out and want to get the buck with the largest set of antlers and skip taking the spike buck. I have never eaten the antlers and understand they are not that good so I will take the one that tastes good not the one for show.

Now we use to have what we called a Hungry Hunt down here and it was fun. Before gun season and using archery and you could get the does or bucks ... anything but a spotted deer. If a doe had a fawn with her ... needless to say she was safe but in October that is a rare sight.

Things worked out really good , I got turkeys, deer and hogs that way. If it came by you it was fair game ... that is why we called it a Hungry Hunt.
By the way I would let a deer walk by if I had a chance to get a wild turkey, man I love those with mashed potatoes, stuffing and gravy. The best one I ever got was 21 pounds dressed out and in the roaster , his beard is still hanging from my quiver.

Thinking about it .. One neighbor, about 3/4s of a mile away from us had Guinea Fowl and 4 of them decided to roost in a big ole oak tree at our place, man those things are noisy, they are also quite tasty. The last sound they heard was a soft ...Twangggggggg :)

Chuck.
Swampy .. you have me remembering some good times.