LSU Ag Center has a set of pirogue plans!
- Thread starter m4a34u
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If you don't like the pirogue plans then just shorten up the url to:
http://www.bae.lsu.edu/en/our_offices/d ... ing_Plans/
and look at all their plans.......there is a ton of them. then, use the llittle search window in the upper left corner and find EVERYTHING......i've been looking for a way to compost and they have lots of ideas and plans. cool site.
Quit laughing at louisiana.......
Piper
http://www.bae.lsu.edu/en/our_offices/d ... ing_Plans/
and look at all their plans.......there is a ton of them. then, use the llittle search window in the upper left corner and find EVERYTHING......i've been looking for a way to compost and they have lots of ideas and plans. cool site.
Quit laughing at louisiana.......
Piper
i've seen these before but never built to the plans
they're a pretty basic set of plans, seem easy to build to
if you want to add some stability and IMHO, better lines, then pop those sides out to about a 35 degree angle
they're a pretty basic set of plans, seem easy to build to
if you want to add some stability and IMHO, better lines, then pop those sides out to about a 35 degree angle
Thanks Seedtick,
Got another question, what about the cut in angle? It shows in the plans for 12" sides they cut back only 6". If I were to increase the angle of the stern stems to 35 deg , should I increase that cut back to 10 or 12 inches :?:
Also, If I wanted to raise the sides to @14" sould the the cut out swag in the sides increase from 2" to 4 inches :?:
Lastly, do you think that it would have at least 2" of rake in bow and stern :?:
Thanks for all the input, you guys are the best.
P.S. I saw that they were having a Sawmill Festival in Patterson. I believe it starts at the beginning of April. I have been to the museum and noticed several dugout pirogues and maybe a plank pirouge. Seedtick, willl you and Keith be attending this year?
Bill
Got another question, what about the cut in angle? It shows in the plans for 12" sides they cut back only 6". If I were to increase the angle of the stern stems to 35 deg , should I increase that cut back to 10 or 12 inches :?:
Also, If I wanted to raise the sides to @14" sould the the cut out swag in the sides increase from 2" to 4 inches :?:
Lastly, do you think that it would have at least 2" of rake in bow and stern :?:
Thanks for all the input, you guys are the best.
P.S. I saw that they were having a Sawmill Festival in Patterson. I believe it starts at the beginning of April. I have been to the museum and noticed several dugout pirogues and maybe a plank pirouge. Seedtick, willl you and Keith be attending this year?
Bill
seedtick said:
Would you do that by raising the bottom centerline even more than it is? If so how much do you think?
Oops, great minds think alike. I see Bill has just asked the same question.
let see if i can 'splain it better, maybe friend Keith will chime in with corrections
I'd increase the cutback to 8 or 10"
35 degrees was not the stem angles, it was the angle of the sides (away from perpendicular \__/). That pirogue seems to have sides that were almost vertical, well maybe 15 or 20 degrees. Spreading the sides out increases the displacement (footprint of the boat) as the boat is loaded. It also offers more stability as you lean from side to side than those with more vertical sides.
I'd leave the swag alone. The plans call for two 10" sides and a 24" bottom to be cut out of the center a 48" wide piece of plywood. Two 10's and a 24 is only 44" so they're allowing you 2 inches of slop in your cutout. If you can't cut closer to the line than 2 inches, then maybe you need some practice before starting to build a boat.
Lay out the parts a little closer together and make precise cuts and you could an inch or better on the sides.
Three things affect the amount of rake:
1. the swag in the bottom, the less swag the greater the rake
2. the angle of the sides, the greater the angle the greater the rake, and
3. the width of the boat, the greater the width the greater the rake
Just for demonstration, get yourself some posterboard and cut two rectangular pieces scaled to sides that would be 12' long and 1' high. Hold the middle of the pieces vertical to a table and have someone bring the ends together. Vary the three things I just talked about and you'll see how rake varies.
Not sure when Patterson Festival is, if it's in April, we'll likely be there. Not sure what we'll bring. We're working on dugout, a bateau and a skiff right now, but they'll probably be completed by April
I'd increase the cutback to 8 or 10"
35 degrees was not the stem angles, it was the angle of the sides (away from perpendicular \__/). That pirogue seems to have sides that were almost vertical, well maybe 15 or 20 degrees. Spreading the sides out increases the displacement (footprint of the boat) as the boat is loaded. It also offers more stability as you lean from side to side than those with more vertical sides.
I'd leave the swag alone. The plans call for two 10" sides and a 24" bottom to be cut out of the center a 48" wide piece of plywood. Two 10's and a 24 is only 44" so they're allowing you 2 inches of slop in your cutout. If you can't cut closer to the line than 2 inches, then maybe you need some practice before starting to build a boat.
Lay out the parts a little closer together and make precise cuts and you could an inch or better on the sides.Three things affect the amount of rake:
1. the swag in the bottom, the less swag the greater the rake
2. the angle of the sides, the greater the angle the greater the rake, and
3. the width of the boat, the greater the width the greater the rake
Just for demonstration, get yourself some posterboard and cut two rectangular pieces scaled to sides that would be 12' long and 1' high. Hold the middle of the pieces vertical to a table and have someone bring the ends together. Vary the three things I just talked about and you'll see how rake varies.
Not sure when Patterson Festival is, if it's in April, we'll likely be there. Not sure what we'll bring. We're working on dugout, a bateau and a skiff right now, but they'll probably be completed by April
I had started cutting out my 1/2 scale model before I got seedtick's last post. I went with 7.5" sides, a cut back of 5" and cut out a 2" swag(edited...remeasured and I cut 2.5" out). The length I used was 6.5' hoping it would end up being about 5.75"to 6".
Here is what happened, I wanted the beam at gunnels to be @ 18" and the beam at chine to be 12". I could streach that beam to 18" but it left my beam at chine at 15". If I then pulled it in to 12" it gave me a pretty large rocker and wide flare, but I had to pull the bottom part of my sides in. I then measured for a breasthook 9" back and 9" wide and everything
looked alright :? Oh yeah, my cheap luan sucks, I had a void in it, it cracked but I was able to salvage it :evil:
Question, if I would put a slight arc in my bow and stern and increase the cut back anther inch, would that decrease my beam at chine? IF not, what could I do, deacrease the swag cut?
If I can get my hands on a camera I will shoot a pic to you today.
Thanks,
Bill
Here is what happened, I wanted the beam at gunnels to be @ 18" and the beam at chine to be 12". I could streach that beam to 18" but it left my beam at chine at 15". If I then pulled it in to 12" it gave me a pretty large rocker and wide flare, but I had to pull the bottom part of my sides in. I then measured for a breasthook 9" back and 9" wide and everything
looked alright :? Oh yeah, my cheap luan sucks, I had a void in it, it cracked but I was able to salvage it :evil:
Question, if I would put a slight arc in my bow and stern and increase the cut back anther inch, would that decrease my beam at chine? IF not, what could I do, deacrease the swag cut?
If I can get my hands on a camera I will shoot a pic to you today.
Thanks,
Bill
not sure we're exactly on the same page, but if i understand correctly at the middle of the boat you have a 5.5" side (7.5" side minus the 2" swag) and a 3" overhang on each side(beam is 18" - 12" bottom so 3" on each side). If you draw a vertical line from the edge of the bottom to the top elevation of the side, you have a right triangle with a 5.5" hypotenuse and a 3" top side. If I cipher my trig correctly, that makes for a 33 degree side. That's close to what we use on the marsh pirogues. Your 2" swag is pretty severe as it translates to a 4" swag on a full scale and gives you a lot of rocker or rake, as you found out. The amount of rocker is a trade off on performance and personal preference. More rocker makes the pirogue more maneuverable whereas less rocker improves straight line tracking when paddling.
To get to a 33 degree flare does require some tortureing of the plywood, as you found out. We normally build around a jig to hold the sides in place until you can get the bottom on or at least a couple of bottom ribs installed to hold things together
Putting an arc in the leading edge of the stems makes for a better looking pirogue but is also more difficult than just straight tapered stems as you end up with compound angles on the stem which are harder to fit. OTOH if you're a fan of epoxy and don't mind a lot of it on your boat, then it will cover a multitude of ill fits and still hold the boat together.
To me increasing the cutback is more of a visual thing. Increasing the cutback does make the footprint of the boat somewhat smaller. I don't think that has much influence on the bottom width as you can force that width up to the breaking point of the plywood. Good plywood bends better than the "cheap luan" stuff. Personally I'd decrease the swag.
The good part of all this is just about anything you build will float and will be at least somewhat functional. Your next pirogue will be better suited to your needs. As you've likely noticed, most folks around this forum can't build just one.
To get to a 33 degree flare does require some tortureing of the plywood, as you found out. We normally build around a jig to hold the sides in place until you can get the bottom on or at least a couple of bottom ribs installed to hold things together
Putting an arc in the leading edge of the stems makes for a better looking pirogue but is also more difficult than just straight tapered stems as you end up with compound angles on the stem which are harder to fit. OTOH if you're a fan of epoxy and don't mind a lot of it on your boat, then it will cover a multitude of ill fits and still hold the boat together.
To me increasing the cutback is more of a visual thing. Increasing the cutback does make the footprint of the boat somewhat smaller. I don't think that has much influence on the bottom width as you can force that width up to the breaking point of the plywood. Good plywood bends better than the "cheap luan" stuff. Personally I'd decrease the swag.
The good part of all this is just about anything you build will float and will be at least somewhat functional. Your next pirogue will be better suited to your needs. As you've likely noticed, most folks around this forum can't build just one.
Thanks for the great info Seedtick. I am in the middle of my first pirogue (UJ) and am trying to visualize how the different dimensions change the geometry. Your info is very helpful. I think I will be building some models before I try and customize a boat.
you're doin' good
scale models will help you through a few iterations before starting the actual build
one thing i'd recommend is to write down what you've done at each stage along with the results
there's an old saying about the faintest ink being brighter than the most vivid memory
scale models will help you through a few iterations before starting the actual build
one thing i'd recommend is to write down what you've done at each stage along with the results
there's an old saying about the faintest ink being brighter than the most vivid memory
Thanks for all the help Seedtick, I really appreciate the time you have spent on my project as well as the posts and beautiful pictures of the pirogues you and Keith build.
As you might have guessed, I am not building a show boat here. I am looking for a hunting rig. Something that meets my needs, I have a copperhead Ron Chapman but I am scared to crack it if I put it on land and sit (on a bucket) or stand in it. I have an aluminum Pirogue that is built like a barge (flat on both ends with no rocker or flare) but I can jump up and down in it, bang it around, but takes me twice as long to get to the blind.
My dad has an Uncle Johns he made @ 5 years ago, it tracks well, but he asked a local Fiberglass man to make it durable and it weighs over 140 lbs (too much resin and chopped glass). I don't want to haul that thing around.
I need something that I can hunt from, carry me and my dog (total weight @ 330lbs), be light enough for me to carry, and hopefully something my 2 boys (8 and 6 yrs old) can enjoy hunting or using in Boy Scouts.
This is a project I plan to include my boys in and I am excited to be starting this project with them...
Thanks again,
Bill[/img]
As you might have guessed, I am not building a show boat here. I am looking for a hunting rig. Something that meets my needs, I have a copperhead Ron Chapman but I am scared to crack it if I put it on land and sit (on a bucket) or stand in it. I have an aluminum Pirogue that is built like a barge (flat on both ends with no rocker or flare) but I can jump up and down in it, bang it around, but takes me twice as long to get to the blind.
My dad has an Uncle Johns he made @ 5 years ago, it tracks well, but he asked a local Fiberglass man to make it durable and it weighs over 140 lbs (too much resin and chopped glass). I don't want to haul that thing around.
I need something that I can hunt from, carry me and my dog (total weight @ 330lbs), be light enough for me to carry, and hopefully something my 2 boys (8 and 6 yrs old) can enjoy hunting or using in Boy Scouts.
This is a project I plan to include my boys in and I am excited to be starting this project with them...
Thanks again,
Bill[/img]
you need to keep the bottom of the pirogue close to 24 inches and open the top to about 36 inches. that is why you need a jig or two in the center. I make the jig out of plywood (3/4) with a 1-1/2 inch (1/2 of a 2x4). take a scrap plywood and mark a 20 inch bottom, then draw 36 degree sides, this can be 10 or 12 inches high, but make the 1-1/2 inch pcs longer, that way you can slide it up and down in your baot and get the bottom as wide as you want. this is a start. later keith
ps. and when you open the center, the ends will come down because you are turning the center bottom up, you can control the rocker
ps. and when you open the center, the ends will come down because you are turning the center bottom up, you can control the rocker
Thanks for the pics and ideas, looking forward to getting started.
What are your thoughts on plywood? Should I use exterior grade or marine plywood? Are some manufacturers better than others???
Thanks guys,
Edited....Sorry Keith, it was not my intention to try to push my buisness. I was just trying to show my appreciation to you and the rest of the gang.
Bill
What are your thoughts on plywood? Should I use exterior grade or marine plywood? Are some manufacturers better than others???
Thanks guys,
Edited....Sorry Keith, it was not my intention to try to push my buisness. I was just trying to show my appreciation to you and the rest of the gang.
Bill
I believe in good tool and good material. I dont try to sell on here, so my horse ant running in this race. later keith