Lunatic Seeks Advice

[islandpiper]

seedtick........I think there is a place in Chicago where you can get adaptors to make all four wheels into duals. I've seen your boats. Things of beauty, to be sure, but a wee bit on the......hmmm........heavy side to hoist up onto the roof rack.

A trailer would be in order, unless she got a lite-weight skiff someplace.

Piper

 

[clarenancy]

BearRidge, my Walter would not have moved to digital 'cept his job required it. He used to think of himself as a "purist" and he defined purist as traditional.

Actually, that's how we became acquainted. Someone had to teach him how to use the computer and photoshop. And that someone was me :wink:

SeedTick, I looked at the bateau idea but that may be more boat than we need. I haven't run across any plans for a bateau (or is it batteau? I've seen both!). Can you direct me to some? Googling this term is difficult. I get more women's tops than boats. Or French sites and such. And the boats I do get hits on are aluminum. I did run across a cool site where these folks do a yearly river party in Virginia with batteaux. Their boats are quite large. More like barges to my mind. Or floating covered wagons.

See here:

http://www.batteau.net/

I think I'd rather slim down our paraphernalia than go too large in boat size. One of my considerations is weight. Which is part of why I'm looking toward wood over other materials. The aluminum and fiberglass canoes I've used in the past were quite heavy.

That plus I appreciate the beauty of the wood.

From what I've been reading, here and elsewhere, the weight of these wooden pirogues will not be so great that I couldn't carry or dolly it myself without wishing I hadn't.

I don't know what the weight of a skiff would be. I haven't had a lot of first hand knowledge with other boats. Do you know about how much a 15' skiff would weigh? The description of the dingy on JEM says the weight would be 85#.

I'm comfortable in a canoe. Just how much agility would I be sacrificing?

 

[seedtick]

in my world of simplified definitions,
a pirogue is pointed at boths ends
a skiff is pointed on one end and has a square back end (transom)
a bateau is square at both ends

squaring off one or both ends doesn't add significant weight as the sides stay the essentially the same, only the bottom panel is larger

here's a 14' skiff in plywood. It was built to handle a motor so it's 1/4" sides and 3/8" bottom and weighs a tad over 100lb (friend Keith may have to correct me here)

I have my Dad's 14' by 2' bateau made in the 1950's from 1/4" plywood that he used for fly fishing ( no trolling motors back then). Haven't weighed it but he moved it about on roof racks on his car. I move it by myself in the back of a pickup.

 

[clarenancy]

Lovely boat, SeedTick. Does that seat slide off?

Well, by your definition we may be talking about a skiff. I'm torn but I wondered whether we'd have cause to use a trolling motor. And the transom would accommodate that easily. I've seen some on this forum where the builder took a foot or two off the end of the original pirogue plan and created a flat back. That seemed like a reasonable thing to do if one wanted to use a trolling motor.

But I reckon your pretty green boat above isn't as narrow in the back as the lopped off pirogues I've seen in the forum.

 

[seedtick]

yes it slides off, it's kind of an Uncle John's seat with the bottom adapted to stadium seat configuration so it fits on a flat seat.

Building a bateau is similar to building a pirogue. When you cut out the sides, the stern or back end is cut at an angle (/) usually 10 to 15 degrees and instead of bringing the the sides together to fit a stempiece you bring them together to fit a transom. The transom can be any width you like, but it needs to be at least a couple of inches narrower at the bottom than the widest part of the bottom of the boat. If your bottom is 24" at its widest point, then the bottom of the transom should be no wider than 22", preferrably about 20". You want the boat to shed water from the max width to the back instead of pushing water the full length.

You can build it by building a pirogue and cutting off the back end for the transom but I don't like building two backends for the same boat or losing length.

The squared off stern gives you a larger footprint in the water which of course means more flotation which is helpful if you're back there with a trolling motor

 

[bearridge]

A 50 pound boat aint no fun ta tote.

 

[seedtick]

you're right bear,

but in my part of the country we get on the water to boat not tote

 

[bearridge]

different strokes......

 

[clarenancy]

There's always some toting involved (unless you live on the water). From the garage to the truck. From the truck to the creek, which isn't always close.

Now I can pick up a 50# sack of dog food, throw it over my shoulder and tote it from the truck to the porch. But I don't like to.

I'm in real good shape for 45 y o woman. But I'm still a 45 y o woman.

 

[bearridge]

Friend Clare,

That Walter.....messin' with the young girls....'er do all ya'll stop at 45? :wink:

Now fer a big surprize. I fergot how much my boats weigh. I looked it up. The Dagger Caption iz 14 feet 'n weighs 55 pounds. My Blue Hole OCA iz jest shy of 16 feet 'n weighs 70 pounds. After the stoke it dont look like Miz Bear will be helpin' with the boat totin' this year, so I am lookin' fer a canoe cart. She aint ever been tall enuff ta help me git a boat on top of the pickup, so I seen the big letters on the wall.....SAVE YER BACK. A canoe cart will help, but a 30 pound boat would do more good over the long haul.

Now if ya had married a young fella....bout yer own age, I reckon a hunerd pound boat wouldnt be no truble at all. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Tell Walter he better drop by fer a visit. He mite not care fer all the "boat science" some of these guys are full of, but me'n one 'er two others tell the truth, the whole truth 'n nuthin' but the truth. [Sometimes we add "so help me God"......if the lightnin' aint too bad.]

regards
bearridge
bodine school of photography

ps Wonder if Walter knows Maudie Clay 'n her cousin Bill Eggleston? They take pichurs too.

Intaxication: Euphoria at getting a tax refund, which lasts until you realize that it was your money to start with.

 

[a Bald Cypress]

c

Always truthfull Brer Bear,

Seams that you didn't read the ladys post to carefully. Looking at it I see she is from Alabama.

Now, as we all should know, in Alabama, totin boats is ladys work. Men just stand around, drink beer and give directions.

P.S. In a pinch, men can, if the woman is otherwise occupied in doin the cooking or in the act of fetchin another beer for him, bait his own hook while fishing.

So, boat weight is a highly important aspect of the whole "we need a boat thing"

 

[clarenancy]

If us women in Alabama didn't keep up our strength for boat toting and such than all progress would stop come football season!

And honestly, if I don't pull my own weight than I'm less likely to trick the Mister into my crazy schemes. It's one thing to talk a man into helping you out or working beside you. It's quite another to talk a man into doing it for you while you watch.

Clare

 

[sheena's dad]

Clarenancy;

Pleased to meet you and welcome to the forum. I just saw the thread after Texas River Rat told me about it over the phone. As I read, I could see you HAD been lurking here.....I think you'll fit right in with this bunch of loons......they are a great bunch of guys.

As Wannabe told you I am also into photography. As for my pirouge I decided to go with the touring T, one of Matt's (JEM) designs. While it is nowhere near ready to go into the water, I feel for me that it is perfect for carrying my LF gear out into the shallow still waters I have around the house. However, Matt is designing for me a pod to carry some of my LF gear that I can tow behind a kayak he's designed (speaking of which I ned toget the money in temailto get he plans for it...it's a 15'6" Laker design, that I believe will be an ultra sweet little craft when I get it done)

But you may want to look at Matt's designs for the Touring T, I really think you would like that boat for what you say you will be using her for.

By the way, as far as LF gear, I shoot 4x5, 8x10 and when this business I have to take care of regarding Deb's health is done, I have a 20x24 that I need to return to the woodshop to finish building, it is based on the Wisner 4x5 and 8c10 technical fields. Will probably be a bit heavy being based on those cameras but should prove to be a real crowd stopper when I get up under that blanket.

Steve
Sheena's Dad

 

[clarenancy]

Glad to meet you Steve!

That pod idea sounds very interesting. You'll have to let me know how that turns out. And how it is towing. I'm curious to know about the design. Will it be like a wee kayak that comes apart laterally or what?

I was thinking of building or rigging some kind of water tight tupperware type box or two that I could make sure float with the weight of the gear. Of course, I pictured them strapped in the fore of the boat.

My Walter uses an 8x20 Korona and and 8x10 Deardorff. Of course he has smaller backs for the Deardoff but he likes the 8x10. Your 20x24 will no doubt be a crowd stopper. Now THAT is a beast of a camera.

Bald Cypress recommended the JEM 500. I like Touring T too. With your pod idea, I really don't need a big un.


Thanks,
Clare

 

[clarenancy]

BearRidge,

I asked my WalterBuck about Eggleston and Maudie Clay.

He's real familiar with Eggleston's work but has never met him personally. And I reckon they are cut from the same cloth re artistic asthetic - finding beauty and mystery in the ordinary and familiar. Walter doesn't do color with his large format work though. Which, of course, Eggleston is the grand pa of color art photography.

He's not familiar with Maudie Clay. I did a quicky google and found very little on her. Although I see she is included in a book on the Mississippi Delta.

 

[bearridge]

Maudie iz Bill's cousin. When she started sellin' pichurs, she changed her firsrt name a bit. I recall some color pichurs, but she mostly takes black 'n white ones.
http://wapurl.co.uk/?XMQA9MT

 

[hairymick]

G'day Mis Clare! and welcome aboard, girl!


Sorry I missed this thread but we have been a little pre-occupied over here.

Miss Robin and I are keen ammateure photographers (Robin is way better then me) but we only use the pocket dig type gear. Rob has been dropping some pretty big hints for a flash SLR thingamee for some time but I wouldn't know what to look for.

re boats, definately get two. There will be days when just one of you will feel like a paddle and the other won't. A tandem boat will be too big for you on your own. Not only that, you will be ale to take the time in YOUR boat to do what you want.

The UJ pirogue would suit your needs but might be easily upset with a solid dog like a Lab in it as well. How boisterous is the dog?

Matt, of Jemwatercraft also has a fine range of canoes, kayaks and pirogues and his friend Morton Olsen at the same site has some alternative boats that might suit your needs even better. Have a look at this one.
http://www.boatplans.dk/boat_plans.asp?id=34

If you decide on a big, tandem pirogue,have a look at this one,

http://www.jemwatercraft.com/proddetail ... Pirogue500

Two singles

http://www.jemwatercraft.com/proddetail ... rogue14-29

or this

http://www.jemwatercraft.com/proddetail ... ourPirogue

or, perhaps, something like this - P-5 8)

P5 and touring pirogue, side by side

 

[clarenancy]

BearRidge!
Now that I know not to type the "i" in Maudie I found more on her. I forwarded Walter the dog picture and he immediately new her. He's right fond of both her's and Bill's work.

Greetings Hairy Mick!

Fine boats you've got there! And fine lady too! Almost as fine as me :wink:

Don't know what to say about the cameras. I suppose a lot depends on how serious she is. My husband loves his Nikon D300 but that's a lot of camera Well, a lot of money for a camera anyway. Before he went to the 300 he really enjoyed his Nikon D 70. Of course, he sticks with the Nikons because he already has Nikon lenses and they always work, whereas some cameras change their lens bayonet sizes. For me, I have what is in between a wee snap shot camera and an big SLR. That's the Canon Power Shot. It's lens does not change out but it is a fairly good optical zoom for a little camera.

Check out http://steves-digicams.com/

This guy rates every camera around and gives quite bit a detail.

Back to the boats!
The dog can be pretty calm most of the time. She minds well. But she can have her very excited moments given the circumstances. I'm sure if I condition her on small outings I can get her used to the notion and she'll behave properly on the bigger ones.

I'm intrigued by Steve's floating pod idea. That could change everything regarding boat size.

Clare

 

[clarenancy]

Hey Y'all,

I've got Walter following the thread. But you may have noticed, I'm the talkative one of the two of us! I hope I haven't barged in on the He-Man Woman Haters Club.

Mick,
Just to show how much I've been lurking, I thought of you on AZNAC day! But I wasn't registered. So belated thanks for all Diggers! God bless and good on ya!

I can picture myself in Robin's boat with Mollie in the front and a cooler in the back. I could probably strap a tent and a sleeping bag in there too.

I can see WalterBuck's LF gear in the back of your pirogue and a mess of camping gear and a tripod in the front. He reckons all his gear weighs near 100#. But he's only weighs in at 150# so we're not too bad on the weight there.

We're not going to discuss my weight but I'm probably in league with your lovely Robin so I surely can carry the darling dog, a cooler (tasty beverages included ) and a some camp gear.

Steve,

Just how much gear do you aim to tote in your Touring T? I'm guessing the heaviest, most bulkiest thing WB has are his tripods. And his 8x20 film box isn't small either. How would you go about securing your gear and keeping it water tight if you were to go out on a day trip OR and overnighter?

I may have mentioned before but I don't have any experience camping (or toting camping gear) in a canoe. Just me and my lunch.

And if we decided we were old and past the need to tent together, trading our tent for 2 hammocks, where would Mollie sleep? :shock: Do they make a doggie hammock?

Actually, reading this board has only pointed out to me how behind the times WB and I are in camping gear. I thought Hennessy was just cognac.

Thanks again for your advice and jovial camaraderie! Not the commie kind (comrad-er-y) just the friendly kind!

I hope you are patient cuz I'll have a million more questions before it's done! Research, baby. That's how I do. Save a lot of bad decisions that way. I'll soon seek advice on the hauling the bitch. And I'm not talking about myself!

I'll get Walter on here when we get to building. This will be a great summer project for us. I'll even get the boy in on it. Shucks, we may be working toward 3 pirogues before you know it. But boy (Sam) will need a big one just to haul his food. Have you SEEN what a 21 year old can eat if he's doing physical labor!!! :shock:

 

[sheena's dad]

By no means are, nor shall we be women haters.....admirers from afar, flirts, ladykillers, self describe Don Juans....maybe.....but women haters....never.....unless of course you get to talkin' about ex-wives.........then that might be a whole other story. :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll: 8)

To answer your question though, usually on a day trip, it will be mostly a lunch, maybe the 4x5 or the 8x10 depending on which one I choose for the day....depending on my mood, 2 tripods, and 2 camera cases one with my film holders and the other with my RB medium format gear. I ususally have the holders on the RB system loaded with both color and b&w. Ocaassionally I may carry a digital in case I find a sceene I think would make a good painting...something else I like to do, when I have the time to invest in it. Securing it and keeping it dry would be easy simply by using the spacers on the inwhale as eyes forf a 1/4 or 3/8 inch rope and pretty much lacing it in a diamond pattern over the gear once I have it covered in a small tarp. Then when I find a shot I want to beach for I can easily get to the gear simply by loosing the rope like you would loosen your shoestrings.

As far as an overnighter, I'll problably be packing my camera gear into the pod, along with any extra gear that I might want to carry for camping.
Carrying mainly a bag or two in the pirouge and some fishing gear. For extended trips like a long river runs, I plan to use the kayak and the pod to carry what I would need for extended trips like that. A note on the pod though, should you decide on something like that, a number of the guys here, and JEM (matt)have expressed concern about hte drag it would create for a boat pulling it. However, since I'll be using it for my photo excursions, I look at that possible (probable) drag as an added benefit as it will force me to slow down so I can see more of the scenery...thus find more shots and use more film then having more fun seeing what I have when I develop and print.

Hope I've answered your question.

Steve

I hope you don't mind. I thought I'd come back in and post a couple of recent pics I've taken. One I like really well the other, one I need to work on.

Steve

Well, I guess it didn't work..... not real proficient with these puter things....