Stitch and Glue Guideboat

[JEM]

In another thread, there was some interest about a stitch and glue guideboat.

I had started a design like this some time ago but was never satisfied with the result. If I'm going to do it, I want to get as close as I can to an authentic guideboat.

When I started the guideboat project, I bought this book:

http://michneboat.com/Book%20Info.htm . I've kept in touch with the author, John Michne, and he even autographed my copy. It's a great read even if a guideboat isn't your cup of tea.

John gave me permission to use his book as a guide to design a S&G version of a guideboat. His book is based on the guideboat, built by Dwight Grant of Booneville, NY starting in 1905. This model was later named the "Virginia".

Anyway...

I'm about midway through drawing the guideboat on my computer and will use it to create a stitch and glue version. Guidboats are a very rounded hull. To duplicate the look and performance, multi chines will be needed.

For you potential builders who might want want to take on this project, how many hull panels would you like to see? I sketched an 8-panel (4 per side) version that looks respectable, but 10 would really do the job well.

Opinions?

 

[oldsparkey]

Just my personal thought ........

To me it looks like it would be better being a 5 or 6 panel boat to maintain the conformity of the hull. The additional panels would let it be rounded out more with less sharp edges or angles to the hull.

Chuck.

 

[JEM]

Chuck,

I was thinking that as well but I don't want to make this build too complex. I think many guideboat lovers don't have one because the cost of buying one is usually around $4,000 and making one the traditional way requires a lot of equipment, skill, and space most folks don't have.

So I'm trying to strike that balance between performance and build complexity.

 

[Kayak Jack]

... I had started a design like this some time ago but was never satisfied with the result. If I'm going to do it, I want to get as close as I can to an authentic guideboat.

Matt, I took the liberty of quoting a friend of mine. I believe it answers your question of "8 ore 10 panels?"

 

[swamprat]

I'd say as many panels as is needed. I know. smart azzed response. But really, other than lofting, cutting and stitching. I don't think its much harder to do 10 than it is to do 4, or 6 panels.If one can do it for 4,one can do it for 10 eh?

 

[hairymick]

Yes,

At least 10 panels. I think it is worth keeping as close to the original as is reasoable. One or two extra panels per side are not really that much.

There are no shortage of canoes out there with very few panels. I am guessing you want this one to be something kinda special?

Is the hull symmetrical? - One panel splice or two?

 

[Jimmy W]

I agree with the others. If it takes 10 to do the job well, then use ten. Would ribs be needed in a boat that size?

 

[JEM]

Traditional Guideboats are symmetrical.

Grant's Guideboat was 16' long. I'll probably try to stay as close to that as possible without needing more than one splice per panel.

There will be some ribs but probably only enough to accommodate the center seat and so it does not require a thwart. 2-4 "ribs" at most.

It will have stems that be made by laminating layers of plywood or thin lumber. Haven't decided the best way to handle that yet.

I'm looking into having my CNC guy precut the stems from ash or spruce. Kinda like Unlce john sells with his pirogue kits.

 

[a Bald Cypress]

g

I have no idea what the cost of the plans will be. I did look at a site that will build you a boat [and beautifull they are. no doubt about it] but the cost is a bit out of my range.

Cedar boats with cherry seats, carrying yokes, rails etc.

Length Weight +/- Price
13-ft 53lbs $13,600
14-ft 63lbs $14,000
15-ft 70lbs $14,400
16-ft 73lbs $14,800
17-ft 76lbs $15,200
18-ft 83lbs $15,600
19-ft 88lbs $16,000

But DAMN they are beautifull

 

[Kayak Jack]

Matt,
On your site, I suggested raising the sides a couple inches with a panel that has tumble home. I think that might be prudent from what I can see in the pictures.

Another comment I have is that you may look at stresses on the hull in various situations. Ribs will certainly help stiffen the hull. But, one of the most lethal situations a canoe hull can find itself in is being bent up at both ends. This buckles the hull in the center by pulling apart the gunnels wider and wider until something breaks. Would you consider one, or two, sets of cords across the gunnels to hold them together. There is little to no danger of the gunnels being squeezed together, but being split wide is a real possibility. Your ribs may sustain the force, and maybe not?

 

[JEM]

Valid concerns, Jack.

What I have in mind for ribs are more like frames. They will be about 2.5 inches "tall" and made of 3-4 layers of laminated plywood. Two of these ribs will be in the middle of the boat about 48" apart and probably 2 more near the ends.

It will be similar in configuration like my P-Row design:

The gunnels will also be stout.

Also, because this will be a multi panel hull, the panel seams will act as ribs longitudinal ribs. While I do want a rounded and pleasing shape, the very top panel will probably have just a bit more harder angle to create a stout beam and aid the gunnels with keeping the boat stiff.

Having less panels and harder angles is a hidden benefit to stitch and glue building.

Like you, safety is the top priority in my book.

Not to derail this thread, but I spoke with a couple of you via backchannel about me building my new Trapper canoe for a charity type event. If that doesn't come together, I just may prototype this boat instead.

 

[Ozark]

Nice look Matt. I was thinking more of a drift boat design where the oarsman is back of center to the stern and facing forward. We have a few drift boats here but one of this shape would fit our Ozark rivers nicely.

 

[JEM]

It was just an example. Finished product will be different.

 

[Kayak Jack]

Thank you, Matt, for sharing with us. A true privilege for us.

 

[bothyman]

May be offtopic but I just found this on Guideboats.

>> http://current.com/watch/21269973

I was thinking of building a sasquatch 12/33 (or should that be 30 :wink: )

And now a Trapper canoe in the Pipeline now totally lost on which one to build. .

MickT

 

[hairymick]

G'day MickT and welcome aboard mate.

Your problem is easily solved. - build them all. 8)

 

[bearridge]

Friend Mick,

MickT haz been a member since June ought five, but I figger a glad hand iz always nice. :lol: :lol: :lol:

regards
bearridge

Life's tragedy is that we get old too soon and wise too late. Benjamin Franklin

 

[terryg]

Excellent video bothyman!

 

[JEM]

Got my first pass on it. It's accurate. Lines for the stations of the Grant plans. But I don't know if ply will bend like that.

it's just a sketch missing a bunch of stuff, but here's the first pass:

 

[jdupre']

Nice! 8) Kind of looks like a smaller version of a Viking ship.