Tape both sides???

[tx river rat]

Seed tick
No offense was taken at all ,I thoroughly enjoy the discussions on here and always come away with something from every one of them.
A prime example is the difference in the aws for bridges and the fact that 90% of my work was high pressure pipe and vessels. I have been brain washed to the 100 percent weld :lol:
I guess I need to say this ,You and your partner are master boat builder
and have my complete respect on you being the master of that trade.
Most of the rest of us holigans are less skill
ful at it so we need to build all the help we can into our builds.I would rather see a first time builder play it safe and brace things up a little and as he learns he may be the next apprentice of yours to pass the knowledge down the line.
Its all good
Ron
I just thought of a better way of saying this, you are pros we are amatures,We have never had the chance to take from a master builder
What you do naturaly is a new experience for us.

 

[Nockatee]

Whoo, boy. Didn't mean to stir things up so.
Still, the discussion is educational for a novice builder like myself.
Here is a crudely doctored picture illustrating where internal chines are and fillet at the ply junction is located.
Of course, the two layers of tape are on the entire length of the outside seams.
RED=where fillet is inside.
BLUE=where internal chine logs are and bottom is joined with nails and glue.
I tried to "erase" the middle construction brace in this photo.


Will try to get some better pics of the actual state of affairs this weekend.

The designer called for external chines the full length of the hull with bottom joined with glue and nails followed with tape on the outside more for wear resistance than anything else. I changed the plan as It looked funky to my eye and to avoid the aggravation of bending and fastening the sticks.

 

[oldsparkey]

As I tell everyone who signs on here saying they will have some questions ....When I tell them .... We will have the answers and it is up to you to decide on what to do.

I apologize for the Little WAR or wrestling match , but it does give you a lot of answers. Especially if you plan on making a metal one , then you know who to contact for the welding. :lol:

All of this might be my fault since I refer to the epoxying of the seams as welding them together. That welding is with chemicals and not electronics. :roll:

Anyway , you sure got the answers.:lol: :lol: :lol:

Chuckles...........

 

[seedtick]

excuse my ignorance - or at least my inability to read english

I understood from your first post that you had chines the entire length of the boat and had filleted the chines to the sides. What I see now is that you have chines for part of the boat and filleted sides for the rest of the boat

I've never seen this unique design and, even though that's what you said I didn't comprehend it until you showed the picture

While i have a lot of experience with full chines, i have none with partial chines so i have to graciously defer to those with experience in that type of construction

Sorry if i came across as an a$$ but what was so obvious to me wasn't reality

 

[Oyster]

Hum,,,,,sorry wrong door I guess, I was looking for the mens bathroom, slipping quietly backwards and into the darkness.

 

[bearridge]

what was so obvious to me wasn't reality

Aint it the truth. :mrgreen:

 

[jdupre']

Just something to think about. Sometimes, a material or design that is legitimately considered not as good as the "best" , is thought of as being no good at all. Same argument as the "okoume/luan" debate. Anything less than the "strongest" is thought of as "weak". Illogical thinking in my book. Space age aluminum alloy is likely a bit weaker than the best tempered high carbon steel, but it could not reasonably be thought of as "weak".

 

[gbinga]

I certainly wouldn't bother taping where the chine logs are. Where you have fillets instead of chine logs, hard to say. I haven't seen anyone use fillets without some sort of glass. (though if I read Chuck's post correctly, it sounds like he has done it)

Someone ought to do some testing of joints with glass on the outside and fillets (no glass) on the inside, and then we'd know something. Maybe I'll do a test or two myself. Gonna finish my boat first, though.

I am really pleased with the way I built my boat - no fillets, interior chine logs instead. But....

-I enjoy the carpentry work involved in fitting the chines more than I would enjoy mucking around with fillets and glass. I'm handy with wood, NOT handy with glass.

-I'm not interested in white water of any sort.

-I'm not building anything that will be gas powered.

George

ps - I'm not criticizing anyone or saying that my skill set is superior. On the contrary, I admire someone who can make a slick looking result out of thickened epoxy and fiberglass cloth. But I hate working with the stuff any more than I have to, and I LIKE working with wood.

Also, we learn things when people try something different. If Orville and Wilbur had stuck to well established, proven techniques, they never would have gotten off the ground. We aren't building offshore cruisers here. We're building homemade canoes in our basements. Read up on technique, ask questions, listen to the answers, and having done that, GO TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT if that's what you feel like doing. If it works, you'll learn something. And if it doesn't work, you'll learn something.

gbb

 

[gbinga]

I did some re-reading, and Chuck didn't say he had done fillets with no glass. He said he'd done fillets with no tape, but with full glass encapsulation.

So what we need is a test with glass on the outside, fillet on the inside, no glass on the inside. See if the wood breaks and the cured epoxy fillet stays intact. I haven't seen anyone do that test. Unless someone else has seen it tested to failure, I propose that we don't know if it is a strong joint or not.

George

 

[JEM]

Good perspective: We're building boats for ourselves using methods and techniques that don't require teaching from someone else other than reading a manual, viewing some pictures, discussing in a forum.

All ways of building are valid depending on what the desire of the builder is. I favor the method that an amateur can use and get results they can be proud of. It empowers them. No hidden trade secrets. No having to buy an ugly plastic boat or pay big bucks for someone else to do it for them. I imagine that doesn't sit well with some boat manufactures who want to be needed just like big-brother-Obama-government. :lol:

 

[oldsparkey]

I did some re-reading, and Chuck didn't say he had done fillets with no glass. He said he'd done fillets with no tape, but with full glass encapsulation.

So what we need is a test with glass on the outside, fillet on the inside, no glass on the inside. See if the wood breaks and the cured epoxy fillet stays intact. I haven't seen anyone do that test. Unless someone else has seen it tested to failure, I propose that we don't know if it is a strong joint or not.

George

Well it was what I did not say that has you thinking. :lol:

1... I do it both ways , the fillets on the inside and completely encapsulating the boat with fiberglass ( inside and outside.)

**** 2... I have also made some boats with the fillets on the inside over the seams and nothing more then epoxy saturation on the inside ( NO GLASS) with only the glass on the outside , heavier glass then I normally use.

DISCLAIMER.... This method (**** number 2 ) is not recommended if you abuse your boats , Hell it is not recommended at any time.
Before you ask , yes the boats I made that way are still being used and one went down the Buffalo River and lots of rapids for 3 nights , 4 days on the river , not counting camping before or after the trip ( It is the Peterborough Canoe I made , pictured below ). Plus a Pirogue I paddled for 4 nights and 5 days in the Okefenokee Swamp and use in small lakes around here .

3... At times the glass tape on the outside when there is a pronounced keel line on the boat. The tape adds more wear protection to the keels bottom line. Some of the boats only had the bow and stern taped for protection when running up on the bank. All the boats are glassed on the outside and inside unless I am trying something different as in #2.

Chuck.