Winters here in KCMO

[Allen Cessna]

With the warm weather turning cold here in KCMO, I was wondering if I could paint my piroe's Poplar ( the salesman may have said the wood was popular) ribs with acrylic latex paint and then epoxy over them next spring when it warms up. From the forum it looks like you paint the bottom and then use the graphite/epoxy coating last. I hope painting is the solution to my 1/2 finished luan boat now setting under tarps in my backyard for the winter.

The boat I am building is to be used for fun and in Missouri River races. It will be a 5 ribber, with about a 13 1/2 foot, 3/8" plywood bottom with about a 27 inch bottom width. I plan the top to have a little coaming built in to it (a whole other question). I might even try to sail it. Uncle John sold me the kit that I am modifying and modifying (I have used 2 of his pieces with my changes so far). Today I spent way to long nipping away several days ago fiber-glassing to put a 3/4" x 3/4" chime log at the bottom of the sides. This is to be a big river boat that will live it's land time under cover on a trailer.

I didn't start out to build a yacht, but even making parts that no one will ever see is kind of fun. The only thing about such a great forum is sometimes I wish I spent more time building instead of researching things I had never before heard of like anchor trollies. I can see now I need one.

I have wanted to build a boat like this since I first saw one in an 1997 Mother Earth News. I just wish I had got started sooner.

Thanks and I look forward to being able to post and receive answers from the geezers,

ABCNKC

 

[oldsparkey]

With the warm weather turning cold here in KCMO, I was wondering if I could paint my piroe's Poplar ( the salesman may have said the wood was popular) ribs with acrylic latex paint and then epoxy over them next spring when it warms up.

That would cause you to do a lot of sanding , a really lot of sanding all the way down to bare wood.
The epoxy needs to be applied to the wood , The epoxy soaks into the wood making it stronger and protecting it , then paint over it , not the reverse process which you are thinking about.

Paint over epoxy , not epoxy over paint unless you like to waste time , effort , and supplies.

Chuck.

 

[islandpiper]

Yes, Chuck's right as usual.......follow his instructions to the letter.

(C'mon Chuck......let him do it his way and we'll all have lots of fun reading in the Spring when he tries to epoxy over the latex.......In fact, 3/4 layers of epoxy and glass over the latex and he could pop 'em off and have glass pirogues......)

Piper

 

[oldsparkey]

Yes, Chuck's right as usual.......follow his instructions to the letter.

(C'mon Chuck......let him do it his way and we'll all have lots of fun reading in the Spring when he tries to epoxy over the latex.......In fact, 3/4 layers of epoxy and glass over the latex and he could pop 'em off and have glass pirogues......)

Piper

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh , I did not want to give him ideas about making a all plastic boat by using his as a mold for it.

Chuck.

 

[islandpiper]

I figured when Jack is here in January I'd make some Jack-copies that way. I'll probably have to use REALLY fast epoxy though, since he does move around a little.

Maybe if I fill him up with cheap Scotch that will percolate out and serve as a sort of mold-release. Then, I won't have to pry along the edges. I'd hate to send him on his way with screwdriver marks.

Personally, I think we should all make a couple of glass pirogues and sell them to the Chinese.

Piper

 

[oldsparkey]

My last comment has me thinking while I had pup's out back doing his business. I took a peek at the one pirogue in the shop , just hanging there and not doing anything ..... Take one of the pirogues I have out in the shop , coat it on the outside with some mold release , then cover it with glass ( say 12 oz) , epoxy it and pop it off when set.

Now add some wood rails along the top sides and a few wood strips (lattice strips) on the bottom to beef it up .... one really light weight pirogue.

I'm thinking that by using the 32 pounder I made , it might be made that way in the 20's.

HMmmmmmmmm this I have to think about. 8) That would be one light weight boat for back woods lakes fishing where you have to tote the boat into.

Chuck.

 

[Ozark]

OOPP BOAT TOTIN it don't take long to forget does it!

 

[Kayak Jack]

Allen,

You have just experienced the Suthrin Piddler phenomenon commonly known as "thread drift". Once you received an answer (and, it may not be total answer every time) then the palaver begins to head in different directions. It will likely stroll across gritz before it dies out.

These guys aren't BS'ing. They think they're really communicating. Remember the old adage of "if given enough monkeys and enough typewriters, eventually a Shakespearean play will emerge"? Well, we're not there yet. We're still working up towards the level of the funnies that used to be on the Fleers Double Bubble gum wrapper.

 

[Ozark]

Sorry Allen just happens

 

[Allen Cessna]

flash point of epoxy

Thanks for all the reading. Sometimes my estimations aren't very close to someone else's experience. You saved me a lot of work. I guess next Spring I'll spread the graphite/epoxy on the bottom and then paint to that line- moving the masking tape a little with each paint coat over the glass.

Today's question is about the flash point of epoxy. We should get some more days here in at least the high 40's this winter. Can I move the room temperature ribs and epoxy mix outside to saturate them and them move them to the basement (with the windows open) to cure? If so- how far should they be from the furnace. If my dog can stand the smell I guess I can. I will be using Bondo Home Solutions High Strength epoxy resin in one pint cans mixed one to one. So far this stuff has worked pretty well for the scarfed sides and bottom, the chime logs, and covered storage in both ends. And I haven't had to open my good stuff. If I can cure them in the basement I should be able to get the three last rib sets glued and screwed in to keep the whole thing from collapsing under any snow load

All your posts yesterday gave me more time to try to figure out how to make some sort of a pitched covered deck (coaming?) to keep the Missouri River off my feet. From the pictures I've seem it looks like some sort of plywood form might be added to the ribs. Any suggestions on how to make a top would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again

 

[BEARS BUDDY]

Working in the basement should not be a problem. Generally unadulterated epoxy (no thinners) does not produce volitile fumes. The only concern would be if the fumes bother you or other occupants of the house. Just go outside to use any acetone or laquer thinner for tool clean-up. See the West System website for epoxy working techniques. Raka has the best prices, but west has the better online manual.

 

[bearridge]

Friend Allen,

How big iz the Missouri where ya aim ta paddle? How fast does it move? Whirlpools, big eddies, barge traffic? Jest curius, cuz most folks figger the pirogue iz made fer skinny water.....swamps 'n small, flatwater creeks.

regards
bearridge

I'm just standin' in the rain talkin' to myself. Luke Jackson

 

[Allen Cessna]

The Mighty Mo IS a Big River. It travels about 3.5 to 5 MPH with tremendous determination. This day tripping pirogue is a little shallow in the 12" sides, but that's why I want to put a deck on it (something like JEM's Laker). I've been paddling our river for about 30 years in my canoes and kayaks and it does sometimes get your heart pumping, but thats usually just from wind in the wrong direction. We don't have much barge traffic anymore and as long as they don't catch you in shallow water or on the wrong side of a dike you are usually OK. Really the biggest threat is from week end yahoos in their big power boats coming way to close- way to fast.

As you can tell from my questions this is the first boat I have ever made. When I make my next one I will make it bigger and different. I had no idea so much help was available on the internet. But is there ever a point that the must have new tools are cheaper than the materials?

Thanks everyone for all the help. Now if I can figure out how to position a rowing frame in her I'll be set. That will give me something to ponder over the long winter and an excuse to unwrap the tarps and brainstorm. If she gets me wet on the Missouri, we have a lot of muddy creeks and farm ponds around.

ABCNKC

 

[Ozark]

There's some year round paddlin here in the Ozarks Allen no freeze up. Plenty of outfitters or bring your own. Winter trips can be pretty cool, both ways ya know!

 

[Allen Cessna]

Jack:

Thank you so much for your excellent thoughts off post. This is exactly why I was so glad to find this list. I just don't want my baby to just be a sculpture and the boat ramp is only 10 minutes from my house. I guess I can always trot her out to the ramp for bragging rights and then paddle my yak.

Unless... I can come up with a closed cell collar to give her a little more rocker until I build next years boat. Maybe some of that stitch and glue stuff I am just now finding out about. Or maybe... since I haven't cut the 3/8" plywood bottom yet I can make new ribs to make her a semi V . Ya.. thats the ticket. Lots to dream about.

Seriously, thanks for your input. From your profile it appears you know big water.

Allen

 

[hairymick]

G'day Allen and welcome aboard mate.

I don't know your river but if I understand correctly, it is VERY BIG water.

Any pirogue is a skinny water boat. They excell in this environment but were never intended for use in big water. I would very respectfully urge caution when using one in your environment.

A sort of mini deck with flotation compartments each end would improve the boat but it still has a flat bottom and next to no secondary stability.

A pirogue is however a very good exercise in the learning curve re paddlecraft building. There is a prototype, V bottom pirogue - with a tumblehome panel and decks being made at the moment. I think it will probably change the way many of us think about pirogues. It should be ready for the market by the time your summer is approaching and could well suit your needs much better.

 

[Allen Cessna]

Thanks for the concerns. It's kind of cool to get a reply from someone whose drain goes backwards from ours.

I have always planned to get her wet all over in a warm pond. Another good test should be 2 people and a big full cooler frog giggin all night with her. I now know I'll finish my basically basic pirogue with flotation. But after I see how she treats me for awhile, I may have a bigger test for this boat. This is after all, the first boat I have ever built.

It's just I am on our River so often doing chemical and invertebrate sampling and litter cleanups, I don't think I'll be able to help myself. I'm building this "Classic Cajun Pirogue" extra strong and the river couldn't be that deep, it only comes up to here on those ducks.

Really thanks for the suggestions. I guess this time I'll save my cloth and just tape the seams and resin the bottom with graphite, saturate everything, and paint it pretty. Affix a rudder and maybe an anchor trolley and I'm done. Your suggestions got me whoa'd in time that she should still be car top able. Maybe an epoxy/plywood drift boat next time I get this fever to put something on my trailer.

Even though I am mostly finished changing the basic boat, I would like to be able to row it facing which ever end becomes fore wards. I made my boat with a 27" bottom and the top is about 31" wide at the centerline of both. I think I could just add blocks and bracing to raise the oarlocks to about 4" above the 12" rub rails and just use storable short oars.

Would the top sides centerline be the right place to mount the oarlocks?

Uh and- What kind of thick insolation can you epoxy over if it is out of the Sun?

Thanks