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Built a pirogue, now on to bigger plans

Kayak Jack

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
13,800
136
83
Okemos / East Lansing Michigan
We have too many options and choices when we build ourselves. If we go to buy a boat, our options are much more limited.

Reminds me of a woman buying (really, shopping for) shoes. Put two pairs in front of her, and she’ll buy one. Put 15 pairs in front of her, and she leaves in cofusion.
 

oldsparkey

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
10,261
90
77
Central , Florida
www.southernpaddler.com
Bee... You mentioned considering a Ogeechee River Boat. That's why I brought up the Bayou Skiff. Also he mentioned using a his friends Gheenoe at times as a Mother Ship.

Which brings me to this explanation of the two.
I had a Gheenoe when they 1st came on the market.. They make them about 20 miles from my place. It had a narrow bow and stern unlike the really wide ones he has today. Had a 9.5 mercury on the back of it and car topped it on a old Jeep wagon. It was no fun loading it or unloading it ( I ended up putting it on a galvanized trailer) but it was a great frogging boat.
Standing in it was not a problem and as I said the bow was narrow. Actually the whole boat was more or less narrow.
Well they was one shallow water problem. One really dark night Leroy Woods was in the bow and I was using a push pole. We were up in cabbage slew frogging the back waters off snake creek. It's located in a pasture off a main drag so you had to car top the boat and put in in at a ditch to get the the creek. Polling along and doing pretty good at frogging we moved to a shallower area. Out of now were a fresh water mullet took to the air and hit Leroy in the thigh. Really put some excitement in the night at that point That Gheenoe was as stable as a rock even with Leroy jumping around. If he would of gone overboard it was only about 10 inches ( or less ) deep so no big problem but things did eventually quiet down.

One other benefit that Jack mentioned was the ability to fit in the back of a pickup truck. The skiff slid in and out of Mac's Nissan Frontier like it was made for it. No need for a railing ( inside the bed of the truck ) to stable the boat like some boats I have had. Just slide it in the truck and back out.
As a summery and for what's it's worth..... . I have used both of those boats.

As far as PodnasUnlimited Happy Middle Ground Boat want list. I believe he has already figured that one out. This statement makes me believe that... " I've also purchased Uncle John's wooden Jon boat plans as supplemental advice."

Chuck........
 
Apr 23, 2020
10
0
33
Please tell us about "gator glide and hydromat" coatings.
We used marine grade paint (Duralux "Pirogue Green") on our 'rouges but after beaching, portaging, and dragging them through sand, rocks, sticks, etc. we've noticed considerable paint removal from the bottom. Many cajun pirogue owners will tell you that you'll end up having to repaint your pirogue every year or so and thats just the unfortunate fact of cajun life. In order to avoid this issue, I've considered an extremely durable, epoxy based paint specifically engineered for airboats, surface drives, and hunting sleds. Whether its gator glide, frog spit, steel flex, or just clear epoxy...it all does about the same job of creating a slick and durable coating on your boat (or trailer bunks....or even snow shovel...). It could also help fill small voids and cracks where sidewalls connect to the bottom. By hydromat, I mean some EVA foam decking material (usually faux teak) for the seat benches and floor. I think this could make sitting/standing more stable and comfortable and also reduce the sound of sinkers or crab traps falling on the deck.
 
Apr 23, 2020
10
0
33
Bee... You mentioned considering a Ogeechee River Boat. That's why I brought up the Bayou Skiff. Also he mentioned using a his friends Gheenoe at times as a Mother Ship.

Which brings me to this explanation of the two.
I had a Gheenoe when they 1st came on the market.. They make them about 20 miles from my place. It had a narrow bow and stern unlike the really wide ones he has today. Had a 9.5 mercury on the back of it and car topped it on a old Jeep wagon. It was no fun loading it or unloading it ( I ended up putting it on a galvanized trailer) but it was a great frogging boat.
Standing in it was not a problem and as I said the bow was narrow. Actually the whole boat was more or less narrow.
Well they was one shallow water problem. One really dark night Leroy Woods was in the bow and I was using a push pole. We were up in cabbage slew frogging the back waters off snake creek. It's located in a pasture off a main drag so you had to car top the boat and put in in at a ditch to get the the creek. Polling along and doing pretty good at frogging we moved to a shallower area. Out of now were a fresh water mullet took to the air and hit Leroy in the thigh. Really put some excitement in the night at that point That Gheenoe was as stable as a rock even with Leroy jumping around. If he would of gone overboard it was only about 10 inches ( or less ) deep so no big problem but things did eventually quiet down.

One other benefit that Jack mentioned was the ability to fit in the back of a pickup truck. The skiff slid in and out of Mac's Nissan Frontier like it was made for it. No need for a railing ( inside the bed of the truck ) to stable the boat like some boats I have had. Just slide it in the truck and back out.
As a summery and for what's it's worth..... . I have used both of those boats.

As far as PodnasUnlimited Happy Middle Ground Boat want list. I believe he has already figured that one out. This statement makes me believe that... " I've also purchased Uncle John's wooden Jon boat plans as supplemental advice."

Chuck........
The bayou skiff is definitely a strong contender on the list. We actually considered cutting the end of one of the pirogues off to create a flat transom but we were worried this would have compromised the structural integrity of the entire boat. We could potentially square off the front and increase the width/side wall height of the bayou skiff and then we'd pretty much have what we are looking for. Like I said previously, having the square front helps with laying down or standing to catch our prey....but it also helps for pulling ourselves back in to the boat when we fall out or jump out in deep water. Luckily we still have enough youth and energy to do this!
 
Apr 23, 2020
10
0
33
We have too many options and choices when we build ourselves. If we go to buy a boat, our options are much more limited.

Reminds me of a woman buying (really, shopping for) shoes. Put two pairs in front of her, and she’ll buy one. Put 15 pairs in front of her, and she leaves in cofusion.
I agree. Our first builds gave us some experience with what gets used and what doesn't. We had enough foresight (and extra wood) to elevate a portion of the floor in the back to create an "aft" box for keeping things dry (we didn't put running boards like the "cajun secret" plans suggested). Looking back we should have put one in the front too. Or possibly a dry box. We might also consider installing gear track mounting points to accommodate pole holders, go pro mounts, GPS, and other aftermarket gear track accessories. We wanted to keep the first boats traditional and classic looking but I think this next boat is going to have all things functional (i.e. spot lights, anchor trolley, pole holders, seat posts)
 

oldsparkey

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
10,261
90
77
Central , Florida
www.southernpaddler.com
Gator Glide...
1...I know it as Steel Flex. Here in Florida it's used on the bottom of Air Boats and at times can be 1/4 inch thick.The one I was using had it and it's some great protection for the bottom , especially if you are going over some rough stuff.
2...I read about a mix that is used on racing Sailboats which is a Epoxy and Graphite mix. Tried it on one of my Pirogues and it's like switching from two wheel drive to four wheel drive when paddling in the grasses and reeds.Let me slide over old stumps and downed trees in the Okefenokee Swamp that the others hung up on.
3...Over at Chesapeake Light Craft I found some Interlux Brightsides Paint. It's a hard finish and has Teflon in it. I have several boats with it from the water line down. It offers a nice slippery surface in several different colors for a paddle craft.

Chuck.
 

Kayak Jack

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
13,800
136
83
Okemos / East Lansing Michigan
A problem in building boats as our needs and wants grow and change - is that our thinking is usually aimed
pretty much behind us. We’re thinking of situations and problems behind us, ones we’ve already encountered. So, our imaginings for something better are then primarily aimed at solving yesterday’s, or last year’s difficulties.

We somehow need to develop an ability to see ahead. Maybe even a poor prediction would still be an improvement? An old Air Force saying was, “If my foresight was as good as my hindsight, I’d be a lot better off by a damned sight!”

We need go build a boat for what we want and plan to be doing, not what’s already done. (That comes from the “easier to say than do department”.)
 
Apr 23, 2020
10
0
33
A problem in building boats as our needs and wants grow and change - is that our thinking is usually aimed
pretty much behind us. We’re thinking of situations and problems behind us, ones we’ve already encountered. So, our imaginings for something better are then primarily aimed at solving yesterday’s, or last year’s difficulties.

We somehow need to develop an ability to see ahead. Maybe even a poor prediction would still be an improvement? An old Air Force saying was, “If my foresight was as good as my hindsight, I’d be a lot better off by a damned sight!”

We need go build a boat for what we want and plan to be doing, not what’s already done. (That comes from the “easier to say than do department”.)
Part of the reason I'm fishing for feedback here is to learn from people that already had problems so I don't have to have them too! I'd classify myself as resourceful but some may call me a cheat! When following the "Cajun Secret" pirogue plans, we ran in to an issue bending the chine logs where the bend of the sidewalls greatly increased near the bow and stern stems. We were following the plans exactly at this point and we couldn't figure out what we were doing wrong. Talk about killing the motivation and momentum in the wood shop! My buddy had an idea or two to fix the problem but we decided to email the author of the plans to see what they had to say. It turns out they had multiple solutions and must have already anticipated this question. Now we know to use relief cuts, lamination, steam bending, or whatever method we want to bend stubborn parts of the boat. The real learning point was to not expect plans to be bullet proof or perfect....and that it never hurts to ask someone for help.

Thanks for all the feedback and great advice!
 

Kayak Jack

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
13,800
136
83
Okemos / East Lansing Michigan
(1) Well, you’ve got my curiosity up. Would you please educate us on what the heck “pod asunlimited” means? Thanks
(2) When I wrote the above observation, I didn’t really complete it. A final sentence could be added to the effect that: “So, the most common outcome is, that we build more than just one boat. Pretty much all of us.” sigh
 

beekeeper

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
1,650
36
Part of the reason I'm fishing for feedback here is to learn from people that already had problems so I don't have to have them too! I'd classify myself as resourceful but some may call me a cheat! When following the "Cajun Secret" pirogue plans, we ran in to an issue bending the chine logs where the bend of the sidewalls greatly increased near the bow and stern stems. We were following the plans exactly at this point and we couldn't figure out what we were doing wrong. Talk about killing the motivation and momentum in the wood shop! My buddy had an idea or two to fix the problem but we decided to email the author of the plans to see what they had to say. It turns out they had multiple solutions and must have already anticipated this question. Now we know to use relief cuts, lamination, steam bending, or whatever method we want to bend stubborn parts of the boat. The real learning point was to not expect plans to be bullet proof or perfect....and that it never hurts to ask someone for help.

Thanks for all the feedback and great advice!
If we are smart we will try to learn from others. I build with chine logs so I'm curious, did you figure out "why" the chine log was not bending? What do the plans call for, dimensions, type of wood, etc.? Which solution did you use?
In your first post you said, "Flat bottom allows for less drag over veg., shallow drafting, and stability. I can stand and push pole in the 'rogue better than my fishing yak". What size and design(style) is the kayak?
 

jdupre'

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2007
2,170
20
South Louisiana
Jack, "Podna" is Louisiana for "Partner" As in "Howdy, Partner." . So, Pondasunlimited I guess means unlimited friends. Sounds like a good view on life.