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Firewood or a boat?

funbun

Well-Known Member
Sep 11, 2007
214
1
Alabama
#41
Very nice! Gierking's method uses washers, nuts and bolts. Either way, I think I'll stick with butt joints: simple, effective, strong and durable.
 

Kayak Jack

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
13,035
74
81
Okemos / East Lansing Michigan
#43
Bee, I'm glad I was wrong. You're likely a better guy than me. (Although, god knows, that ain't much of a compliment.) The message about setting examples for kids goes out to all of us. We geezers sometimes think rules don't apply to us, and in truth sometimes they shouldn't.

But it is important for we experienced guys to show kids the right stuff every time, and make it a habit with them.


climbing down off soap box, going inside to get a Hershey bar, cuz I deserve one .... maybe two :wink:
 

beekeeper

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
1,442
13
#44
Coal & Kayak Jack
The nesting and folding boats are interesting, but I wanted a boat you could slide out of the truck and go fishing. I would probably forget one section at home.
From the previous input it seems I have these choices or options to improve the design of my boat and still meet my goals at a compromised but acceptable level:
1, Remove my tool box or find a better way to haul the boat in my truck. This would allow me to increase the length by adding a pointed stern. Probably 1' to 2'.
2. Remove the outside chines and/or make the bottom narrower. I think I would have to increase flair of the sides to compensate for the reduction of stability and capacity this would cause.
3. Refine the bottom shape to a more streamline symmetrical profile. Flaring the sides more may be needed. The sides would have to be adjusted to keep the rocker the same. I like the way it tracks as is. It is much better than my other boat that has more.
My dilemma is I don't know which change would bring the most increase in speed or if the gain will be worth the other compromises. I know seedtick says build one out of cheap wood and if you don' like it give it away or us as firewood.

Has anybody paddeled a 3 rib and a 4 rib Uncle John' Pirouge? I woud like your impressons of each, stability ,tracking, capacity and speed.

beekeeper
 

jdupre'

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2007
2,015
3
South Louisiana
#45
Bee, you're going to fret yourself to a frazzle trying to come up with the perfect boat. No such thing. If the length thing is a deal breaker, build the narrowest boat that you feel comfortable with and don't worry about the extra .5 ( yes, that's 1/2 mph) you'll give up in cruising speed.

If the tool box is in the way, just build a rack so the longer boat can sit level on it. That should be a cake walk for a seasoned boat builder. :)

PS. I carry my 16+ foot pirogue in the bed of my compact truck with no problem. Got more sticking out than in. I just bungee a big red T shirt on the stern and hit the road. 50 outings and hundreds of miles with no problems.
 

beekeeper

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
1,442
13
#46
jdupre'
Did not mean to be fretful. I know there is no perfect boat, but there are lots of boats that are close to perfect for a specific task("location sensitive"). As you said in the Touring T vs Touring TV post "I have this crazy thing about wanting to know WHY things work the way they do. If i know the reasoning behind something, I figure I can maybe improve on the performance. ... what other small things might one change to make it even better." I thought, "How can I build it better the next time?", is the reason for the next boat.
An "improvement" in speed (easier to paddle) is what i would like to accomplish. I know a boat that will haul me around will never have blazing speed. Since I have no experience paddling to draw knowledge from I thought someone on here would know.

beekeeper
 

Kayak Jack

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
13,035
74
81
Okemos / East Lansing Michigan
#47
jdupre' said:
.... I carry my 16+ foot pirogue in the bed of my compact truck with no problem. Got more sticking out than in. I just bungee a big red T shirt on the stern and hit the road. 50 outings and hundreds of miles with no problems.
I sure wish he'd let me take that tee shirt off before he hangs it on his darned boat.
 

jdupre'

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2007
2,015
3
South Louisiana
#49
Bee, one thing we haven't touched on. I guarantee , any boat that is borderline "too tippy" will become much more comfortable after a few outings. Can you maybe borrow a smaller, narrower boat for a couple of weekends to try it out?

Joey
 

beekeeper

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
1,442
13
#52
Joey, thanks for the link to John Winters designs. Makes me realize how little I know about boat design. Too many factors to fret over. I do wonder how they translate into factors that an amature paddler could perceive.

beekeeper
 

beekeeper

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
1,442
13
#53
jdupre' said:
The turbulence at the square stern causes water to be actually pulled along with the boat rather than smoothly turning it loose as in a pointed stern boat.

Watched my son paddling my skiff. I could see the turbulence behind the stern. Looked as if the water was rolling up the transom. Thanks again for your and Kayak's input.

beekeeper
 

beekeeper

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
1,442
13
#54
jdupre' said:
The turbulence at the square stern causes water to be actually pulled along with the boat rather than smoothly turning it loose as in a pointed stern boat. Might not be noticed much at 2mph but starts to come into play at about 3 mph. I've seen resistance charts online for all types of paddle craft and there is VERY little difference among them at around 2mph. For every quarter or one half mph above that, you start having to make significant changes in design. Narrower and longer is what does it. Almost no getting around it. :( Probably narrower with sharper ends gives the most bang for the buck. You can't fool physics.
Thought I would post these pictures. May illustrate what you said. I believe I now understand. I don't know if this is a lot of turbulence or a little. It is probably more than a pointed stern would have. It is my sons "Christmas Present" boat, my attempt to improve my "firewood" skiff. I don't have any pictures of it's turbulence, but visually it is more. I also know his is easier (faster) to paddle. Thanks for posting. You helped me build a better boat.






beekeeper
 

jdupre'

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2007
2,015
3
South Louisiana
#55
One other strange thing about water. It sticks to the hull of your boat as it moves throught it, but it sticks to ITSELF even more. Try this when you're bored. Take a teaspoon and fill it with water to the rim. Then take an eye dropper and continue to drop one drop at a time into the spoon. You can almost put two teaspoons of water into that spoon because water molecules cling to each other so much that they pile up above the rim of the spoon. Sometimes I have too much time on my hands. :roll:
 

beekeeper

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
1,442
13
#56
jdupre' said:
....Take a teaspoon and fill it with water to the rim. Then take an eye dropper and continue to drop one drop at a time into the spoon. You can almost put two teaspoons of water into that spoon because water molecules cling to each other so much that they pile up above the rim of the spoon. ... Sometimes I have too much time on my hands. :roll:
How much, if the spoon is graphite coated? :wink: I guess only the rim of the spoon would need to be coated to prevent that annoying water pile up. Sometimes I think too much. :roll:

beekeeper
 

jdupre'

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2007
2,015
3
South Louisiana
#57
[quote="

How much, if the spoon is graphite coated? :wink: I guess only the rim of the spoon would need to be coated to prevent that annoying water pile up. Sometimes I think too much. :roll:

beekeeper[/quote]

That's a good question- really. I'm always thinking about ways to let my boats slip through the water with the least resistance. I have graphite on my pirogue and it seemed to have made it slippery-er.

Joey
 

beekeeper

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
1,442
13
#58
Joey
I'm glade you mentioned your adding the graphite to your pirogue. If this global warming would let up I hope to gain some paddling and fishing experience in my skiff. This will help me build a better boat for me if (when) I build the another one. Was the graphite much (noticeable) improvement in ease of paddling? Any other benefits?

beekeeper
 

jdupre'

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2007
2,015
3
South Louisiana
#59
No proof, bee, but it seems to cruise a little easier and glide just a bit better. It positively goes over and through water plants easier. It's a lot tougher than the oil based paint I had on there before. I don't think it raised the top speed any.
 

Kayak Jack

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
13,035
74
81
Okemos / East Lansing Michigan
#60
RE teaspoons and water: It isn't all of the water molecules sticking together that builds a meniscus. It's only the ones on the outer surface that do that. Surface tension is the phenomenon that allows that. Same thing shapes rain drops, and allows water bugs to walk on water.

I, however, can walk on water for different reasons. But, you mortals wouldn't understand that. :wink: