Fishing Kayak questions.

[FlaMike]

My Pirogue serves it's purpose very well. But. . .

I'm thinking I just might need something else for fishing areas that the Pirogue wouldn't be suitable for. Say maybe places that aren't quite as well protects, where power boat wakes would be more common, and the water might get a little choppy from time to time.

For that, a Kayak comes to mind. But, which one?

I much prefer something designed by someone I have confidence in. (Hey Matt, how ya' doin )

From what little I've learned from my Internet research, Matt's Wadefish looks to be the best for an all-out fishing Kayak. But I was wondering about the Freedom? Everthing to do with boats is a compromise, and I am considering that the Freedom looks to be an easier build than the Wadefish, and available in two sizes.

Two sizes? Well, I might need to build two. My wife is showing an interest. And I might need to make a compromise in size, in order to be able to transport a pair of Kayaks with my truck, still wanting to avoid having to add a trailer to my collection of toys.

So, sacrifice a little "seaworthyness" for ease of build, give up some waterline lenght (aka: hull speed) for the abilty to transport a pair without a trailer, am I wandering too far off the reservation in this thinking?

Let me put it another way. . .

HELP! I'm prob'ly going to build not one, but TWO kayaks for fishing. Any suggestions on which one?

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL

 

[hairymick]

Heya Mike,

Wadefish is a very good boat but a SOT is a complex and time consuming job. Sort of like building 2 boats in one.

I would suggest you have a look at Matts Laker. I am building one at the moment and I have to tell you, I am pretty excited about this little boat. I reckon it is going to prove to be real capable. Also, a quick and easy build. Check out my build on the Jem site.

Another alternative to the Freedom might be a modified Okwater. Beautiful hull and with some deck modifications, could be turned into a real fishing machine with superb paddle performance.

Freedom might also suit well but I am not keen on a flat bottom kayak.

Last but not least is my beautiful Southwind. I believe this one to be the ulimate hybrid. It will take you anywhere you want to go - safely and is a delight to paddle and to fish from in open and skinny water. A 15 footer or so in this boat would truly be a beautiful thing.

 

[FlaMike]

Wadefish is a very good boat but a SOT is a complex and time consuming job. Sort of like building 2 boats in one.

So, if I decided to build two boats, one for me, one for the wife, it would be more like buildin four , wouldn't it? Hmmm. . . I think if I felt like I was building four boats, I'd kind of like to see four boats when finished.

my beautiful Southwind. I believe this one to be the ulimate hybrid.

I've seen your thread in the Bragging section on this one and it certainly is impressive!

With that being the case, then what is it about the Laker that has you so excited? I've not had the chance to look at your thread on it, over on Matt's forum, but I certainly will do so.

I agree with what you said about the Freedom. As much as I love the looks, I already have one flat-bottom (boat!) and really need something more "seaworthy," not to say I'm not happy with the Pirogue. It's a different boat, built for a different reason.

One thing I have to keep in mind here is that I may well be looking at building two, instead of just one. That means building cost is a factor, and I would like to be able to transport both on my truck rack, and not have to buy a trailer. (I hate 'em!) Could go that route if I had to, though.

I've seen two rather long kayaks being roof-toped, both resting on their sides on a station wagon, so I'm sure I can use my current PVC truck rack, or make another.

The one thing that made the smaller version of the Freedom look so good was the fact that I could very easily carry both on my truck, probably without the PVC rack.

Thanks!

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL

 

[hairymick]

So, sacrifice a little "seaworthyness" for ease of build, give up some waterline lenght (aka: hull speed) for the abilty to transport a pair without a trailer

A Laker fits the bill here. - definately. sort of like a skinny, V bottomed and decked pirogue A bloke with your impressive skills could easily and quickly knock up a couple of these and your dillema is solved.

If you would like to wait a couple of weeks, mine should be ready to water test and I'll let you know what I think of her. Meanwhile, I will say this, There is a lot of deck space to mount rod holders etc, The rear deck offers some very good options for a fish hatch etc and the seating should give the bow plenty of lift to rise up over all but the worst of chops and bow wakes. It should track well and still be manouverable enough to fish effectively from.

 

[FlaMike]

My "skills?" With the standard established on this Forum, I'm pretty much a novice. And I've seen quite a few examples of your work! (But thanks!) :lol:

I've been looking around on Matt's web site. Right now, it seems to be just barely functional. I'll try again late today, sometimes it works quite well. I want to do some side-by-side comparisons.

I see what you mean about the potential of the Laker. I'll follow your thread there. I don't have to commit to a particular design right away.

If you get the chance and have the time, I'd like to know how you think the Laker and the Okwata compares. I did not see any mention of the later in the JEM forum.

Both seem to fit the bill, as you say. Large and stable enough to do the job, small enough to fit my transport requirements, and relatively easy to build, without breaking the budget.

One thing I did notice, I could not find the plans for the South Wind on the site. Has the design not been released yet?

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL

 

[JEM]

Southwind is almost there. I got caught under this pile that has been like swimming in quick sand to get out.

It would be easier to point you in one direction if you gave some info about estimated weight on board, stability desired, etc.

 

[FlaMike]

Matt,

I'll come up with some answers to the questions you asked, but I think I'd better get some sleep first. Just finished a 12 hour night shift and I'm afraid I might make even less sense than usual!

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL

 

[Kayak Jack]

Mike,

I carry two boats on my van easily. Thule racks with the longest rods (5' I think) and I can carry two kayaks or one canoe (wider than a kayak) and a kayak.

I'd advise to get either Thule or Yakima racks. Others may be cheaper, but not less expensive when you're watching in your rear view mirror, as they bounce down the road behind you.

 

[bearridge]

Fellas,

This mite sound like warm 'n fuzzy week, but I agree with Kayak Jack on the high dollar racks. He didnt fudge one bit on what he wrote....must be feelin' kinda puny. :wink: I wish I had sprung fer them a long time ago. Ya gotta git some anti-skid clips ta put on the bars, but they dont cost much.

I got the adjustin' Yakima rack that fits any pickup beds in the back 'n a rack fer the front that goes over the cab of a Tundra 'n haz locks. I got the 60" long bars, so it aint hard ta tote two boats...even two canoes.

Unlike all the Rube Goldberg racks, this one will set yer mind at eaze.

regards
bearridge

Fifteen men on a dead man’s chest, Yo, ho, ho and a bottle of Rum. 17th century 401(k) savings plan for buccaneers

 

[Kayak Jack]

I have kayak cradles and canoe clips (small "L" corners that the gunnels rest on). You can get "J" bars to set the kayaks up on edge to get more boats on the rack.

For kayaks on a rack, carry them right side up and put on a cockpit cover. Make sure it fits tightly.

 

[FlaMike]

Uh, the "high-dollar" roof racks might be nice, but I'd have to buy a new car to put one on.

A kayak, canoe, or hopefully a pair of them, will have to ride on the same or a modified version of the rack that currently transports my Pirogue. So far, it's been rock-solid, performed well, and cost a bit less than what Thule or Yakima wants for theirs.

My rack doesn't have quite the flash appeal of those nifty, chrome-plated jobs, and it isn't complicated enough to have made Prof. Goldberg very interested in it, but I'm quite happy with it.

When I remove the rack from the truck, I store the boat on it.

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL

 

[JEM]

I think for a truck, the rig you have works fine. When you have a car or station wagon, then it's worth spending $$$ on a good roof rack. I spent $240 on mine and am glad I did.

 

[FlaMike]

About what I'm looking for in a Kayak design. . .

I'm not looking to paddle out to the Middle Grounds in the Gulf of Mexico to do battle with sailfish, just something for when I'm not going into the skinny water of the backcountry where the powerboat crowd cannot go. My Pirogue serves me well out there.

But I don't think I want to take the Pirogue out into Florida's Intracoastal Water Way, where she'd have to contend with the occasional stink pot's wake, or the chop that can blow up around here.

The carrying capacity of both the Okwata and the Laker look to be just fine for what I need. Unless I read the specs wrong, they seem to be designed to carry about the same load. And both look to have quite a few options for dealing with whatever needs to get carried, in the way of hull and deck space. They'd be used primarily for fishing, rather than camping.

The conversation with the wife went fairly well, right up to the point where I got to thinking about the cockpit opening, or "spammer" I think it's called. There was a sudden temperature dropped when I asked what I thought was a simple, relevant question, "Just how wide is your butt, anyway?" :shock:

I can hear just fine now since I got my head out of there, and the doc says not to worry, my glasses will probably find their own way out in a day or so, but it still hurts to sit down. . .

I think I'd have to limit myself to saying that "ease of entry" would a something of a factor as far as my wife is concerned, the key hole version shown on one of the designs would not work in her favor. I'll not take that subject any further in a public forum where a certain pair of eyes might see it, as I do NOT want my head to go where it's recently been, causing me to see things that no man should ever see.

Mention was made in one of the design descriptions about a "recreational" cockpit design that was yet to come. . . I'm wondering if that might not help me decide which would be best, and help get me out of the dog house as well.

I'm not sure at the moment that she's quite as interested in going out paddling and fishing as I first thought. She has reservations about being the sole power source for a boat. She wanted to know just what happened to the idea about the modified Jon boat for flats fishing. . . The one with the outboard and trolling motor.

It could turn out that I'll only be building one Kayak, instead of two. But I talked her into reserving judgement until she's made a couple of trips with me in the Pirogue. If the darned weather will co-operate, that's supposed to start this week. So far though, the weather still doesn't look all that good.

One option I guess I'll have to keep in the back of my mind is possibly coming up with something I haven't seen yet, a tandem fishing Kayak. But that would have to be something that would be usable for solo trips, as well.

Life does have a way of getting complicated, doesn't it? :lol:

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL

 

[hairymick]

G'day Mike,

If you get the chance and have the time, I'd like to know how you think the Laker and the Okwata compares. I did not see any mention of the later in the JEM forum

I think Okwater will be a superior paddlers boat with a much more streamlined hull, with finer entry and exit points.

Having said that, Okwater is a more difficult build with the tortured ply forming those very fine ends. I am confident you have the skills to do this.- very well. Another concern to me is the rounded decks. Matt has come up with an engenious method of achieving these bends and I am certain it will work, but I have never tried it - yet. My personal choice would be an Okwater with a peaked deck up front like the freedom and a flat panel at back like the Laker.

Laker has all that I like in deck configuration with an easier hull to build. It should still perform well. I really like the very simple build of this boat and I think Matt is on a winner here with this. A boat that looks like a "true kayak" is allmost as easy to build as a very simple canoe. What is not to like?

If you decide on making two of these boats, I would suggest you mark, cut and trim all your panels (for both boats) at the same time. While you are waiting for resin to set up on one, you can be messing round with the other one. (no wait time lost)

Another alternative might be a laker AND a small Freedom. This one really interests me mate but there are other boats I want to build first.

Re your roof racks, please be aware that the PVC tubing will degrade and become brittle in sunlight. Canoe and kayak roof racks are made from steel for some very good reasons. They don't need to be very flash, high dollar jobs like Thule or Yakuma or some such.

Do you know somebody with a welding shop? If so, ask them to build you a set from 1-1/2" or 2" galvanised steel pipe. You can BOLT these directly to your truck bed and never have to worry again. Just a suggestion mate. I just can't imagine how bad it would feel to see a beautiful wooden boat that I had invested a lot of my time,effort, money and heart into, bouncing up the road behind me.

 

[JEM]

Your wife sounds like mine. Her idea of tandem paddling is me paddling twice as hard while she relaxes! :shock:

Almost sounds like a decked canoe, in the 15' range with opening cockpit and decent width coaming (cockpit rim) would be what you need.

 

[FlaMike]

Matt,

So, you think maybe North Wind might be a good one? If I decide I need to go with some sort of tandem, I mean?

I've looked at that one on your web site. Kind of hard to tell, but it looks as if it could take a pair of the folding seats I've already made, unless they need to be a bit higher. (The one from Uncle J.)

If I built that one, and she decided to stay home, how would it be with only one on board? To paddle, I mean.

I'm guessing trying to stretch a Laker or Okwata into a tandem would be a bit much. . . Wouldn't it?

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL

 

[FlaMike]

I'm guessing trying to stretch a Laker or Okwata into a tandem would be a bit much. . . Wouldn't it?

I mean, I'd have no qualms about building a prototype ! :mrgreen:

 

[hairymick]

Mike,

I think Matt might be talking about a 15 foot version of his North Wind. Now THAT would be very special.

 

[FlaMike]

Maybe I'm not following your train of thought, Mick. But the specs on JEM gives a length of 17' 2". Were you thinking about a shorter (15') version? Or just remember it as being that?

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL

 

[hairymick]

Were you thinking about a shorter (15') version?

Yes 8) 8)