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Glades Skiff Build

FlaMike

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2007
624
2
Spring Hill, FL
www.ptponds.com
No pics today. Saw the rain coming and got it all packed back inside and the door closed just as the first line came across and the rains came down.

As soon as I drag it all back out in the morning, I'll take some pics before I get going again.

This is going to be the slow part. Both sides and the transom have been give a rough shape and now I'm working mostly with a hand plane to get things to fit. I have to decide if I'm going to have to pull the forward ends of the side planks in to fit the ply where it curves up forming the bow, or try to eek out a little more flair to the ply to bring it out to meet the side planks.

Most likely, it will be a combination of the two.

Hot, tired and done for the day.

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
 

FlaMike

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2007
624
2
Spring Hill, FL
www.ptponds.com
Pics of yesterday's efforts, taken this AM, before going at it some more.



Everything laid out, ready for today's work. I'd temporarily set up the sides so I could put them on the bottom to see how the fit was going.



Same as above, from the side. I'd like to point out that normally, you don't see the bottom of a boat sitting above the sides. I still have a conceptual problem with that!



The above is for those (few?) who haven't seen an epoxy and fiberglass cloth butt splice before. In this case, it is being used as a "back-up" for a less than ideally made 4:1 scarf joint. A clear finish over the plywood and that band of epoxy will pretty much disappear. Only the joint line will still be visible. And another one, just like it, will be on the other side of the plywood.

And now for what got done, today:



This is where my problem solving began. Kind of hard to see, but I ran some string from the forward points where the side planks should meet the bow, back to the stern points where the side planks meet the back corners of the bottom. Seeing this, with the side planks sitting in place, shows just how much "correction" is needed, and where. As I thought, it's going to be a combination of bending, planing, and some judicious trimming. But, no where near as much as I was thinking, yesterday.



Pic on the left, above, shows the start of making the two sides, match. One of the sides got most of the shaping done today, and the other side got clamped to it. Then I was able to make the other side a "mirror image" of it. The pic above on the right, shows it from the side, with the book for ready reference, sitting in the background.



It would seem, and rightfully so, that I cannot work without supervision. And the supervisor, Spike, shown above, informed me that I really should look up once in a while. He was right, as usual.



Time to pack it up again! Earlier than I'd liked, but undeniably TRUE.



But before I put it away, I took this last pic. I'd just finished making the transom and attached it to the side planks, along with some temporary frame molds that were as close to the proper size and spacing as I could figure. I put the sides upside down on the sawhorses and then put the bottom on top with some concrete weights to bend the ply down as if I was going to nail it together. (Which I'm not quite ready to do yet.)

Got a little more planing to do on the front of the side planks tomorrow and unless the rain starts even earlier than it did today, I hope to nail and glue the bottom and sides together. When that's done, the skiff will be about 90% complete. I think its time to order my varnish from Raka.

Oh, and I did actually start my "pack it away" maneuver just a little too late! The rain started just as I got the boat off the sawhorses so I could put them in the garage, first. It was raining lightly as I moved the 3 planks the boat sits on, and harder still, when I moved the boat and the last tool, the table saw, inside. I got soaked. The boat got pretty wet, too. But it will dry out in a couple of hours, no problem.

Me, I've always been a "drip dry" kind of guy, anyway.

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
 

FlaMike

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2007
624
2
Spring Hill, FL
www.ptponds.com
Not all that far off.

In the first 3 feet, the hull goes from a V, to round, and then to flat. All done with truly tortured plywood. Building a pirogue or most kayaks, you only tease it a bit. With this build, first you water board it and then start the serious physical abuse. 8)

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
 

Gamecock

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2012
146
2
:) Hey Mike, looks like it's coming together. Thank's for posting, I'm enjoying, watching you make this build. Dave.
 

FlaMike

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2007
624
2
Spring Hill, FL
www.ptponds.com
Thanks, Dave! :D

When you are working outside of your comfort zone, you sometimes wonder if its really worth it. But when a problem gets solved, you know it is.

While getting to sleep last night, I realized I'd gotten way out in the deep weeds on this one. Then it occurred to me that I'd been given some good advice that I'd overlooked. When in doubt, go with what you know.

I was still having a hard time seeing exactly how the side planks were going to meet up with the curved plywood in the bow. I mean, I understood the basic process, but I couldn't relate that to what I was seeing. And that was the real problem, I wasn't able to actually see it. Every time I set the bottom panels and the side planks up on the sawhorse, they were sitting on top three solid planks I was using as a work table. I could see what was happening with the outside of the hull, but the only way I could see what was going on with the inside surface was to turn the whole thing over. I needed to be able to see inside and out, at the same time.

So the answer turns out to be to do just what I've seen so many others do, and what I'd actually done myself. Add a couple of temporary mold frames that would hold the side planks in the desired shape which I'd gotten from the shape of the transom and then remove the "table top" from the sawhorses, then place the side plank structure directly on the sawhorses, upside down. This makes it easy to see that the bevel on the bottom of the sides is correct and level. Then put the bottom ply upside down on top of that. Now I can see just how that fits from the outside, and ducking down under the boat, see how things line up on the inside, as well.

I figure not doing this early on probably cost me about two days of building time while I was wandering around, wrapped up inside my own thoughts, just muddling through. I guess there's a reason they call it "tried and true."

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
 

FlaMike

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2007
624
2
Spring Hill, FL
www.ptponds.com
Why, YES, seedtick! Like THAT! :D
Only not so big, nor nearly as impressive. Otherwise, like that.

Not sure why, but your comment under the pic, "jigs are your friends," really tickled me! :lol:

Jack, for certain it is tiring! But, its a good kind of tired. (Most of the time.)

And now, back to your regularly scheduled update:

Did I get everything done I'd hoped to? No, not at all. But what I did get done I can say I'm quite pleased with. I started out this morning doing exactly what I'd planned on, setting up some mold frames (or jigs) and truing up the sides.



This is my movable, expanding jig. It adjust to the flare, or helps set it, and can be moved anywhere in the boat its needed. What isn't seen, is the jack from my truck that I did use to see if the cypress planks would take the bend I decided I needed. Going slowly, a little at a time, the plank came around to where I wanted it. (It didn't break.)



As I've seen seedtick do so often in his build threads, I made sure the bottom ply will lay flat. I used the level because it was the best straight edge I had that was long enough to reach across. Sliding it from one end to the other, I was able to plane any high spots down. Although when I did this, the bow end was pulled in to where it should be. You'll notice those orange nylon straps in several pics. I get a LOT of mileage out of those.



I'd hoped this pic would have shown the rather acute angle that's needed at the bow end of the side plank. But it really doesn't show it very well.



Guess I should have put that bevel gauge in the above pic against the plank in the previous picture, that probably would have shown the angle of the bevel a lot better. And for the record, I usually do remember to lay the plane on its side when not in use. :oops:



This is the part I was fighting with. The side planks are upside down on the sawhorses and I positioned the bottom panels on top. After today's work, the fit is pretty good, I think. There is just one section, about a foot long where I'm going to have about 1/2" of plywood hanging out past the plank to trim off. Earlier, I was afraid there'd be a lot more than that. The other "problem" I found that despite my clamping the two side together to make one a mirror of the other, the ends were not aligning with the bow piece quite the same.

I took some measurements after deciding the boat didn't have a twist or warp in it that I could see, and found that one plank was 1/4" longer than the other. 1/4" over 15 and a half feet? My little plane took care of that.

Since I had the boat upside down all day, I did add the other side of the epoxy and fg cloth butt splice to re-enforce that shaky scarf joint. Since it didn't rain, for once, the boat is still outside while that epoxy is curing. In fact, I'll be going out to put it back inside, right after I post this.

I also learned something today. I now now just exactly how my table saw adjust the blade up and down. This experience was NOT part of my plan for the day, but it did eat up about 2 hours while I figured out why the blade suddenly dropped out of sight. Now I know just what part to order so I can fix it. Some kind of clip that keeps the arm that moves the motor and blade housing in place. No idea where it got off to. . .

Well, that was my day. And of course, my "work week" starts tomorrow so I won't be messing with it until Tuesday.

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
 

Oyster

Well-Known Member
Dec 5, 2008
254
0
OBX North Carolina
seedtick said:
" the hull goes from a V, to round, and then to flat"

sort of like this?



jigs are your friends
Say it ain't so friend, EPOXY??????? and real wood????? :shock: :lol: :lol: :twisted: 8)
Just peeking in and over you guys shoulders to see the latest projects,,,,
 

beekeeper

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
1,576
18


Is this 1/4" plywood butting a 3/4" board?
Will they be edge glued, have a chine log of sorts, or how are will they be joined?
Will the board have to be planed/tappered to 1/4" so it will fit flush with the plywood?

Thanks,
Beekeeper
 

mike

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2009
661
5
TEXAS!
I've been wondering how it is joined, myself. I'm thinking a 1/4" rabbit in the plank would be a perfect way to do it.

Mike
 

FlaMike

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2007
624
2
Spring Hill, FL
www.ptponds.com
The sides are 5/8" planks. For most of their length, the bottom edge of the planks have been planed to match the modest amount of flare set by the shape of the transom. But up forward where the bottom ply curves up, that angle on the plank's bottom edge changes continually to match the ply.

That continually changing angle would be difficult to manage with a rabbit. And I think with a plank of that thickness, I'd rather have the widest possible surface of the plank against the bottom ply.

For the record, I've been off for three days now and its rained all day long, all three days. So not much has been done. VERY frustrating!

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
 

beekeeper

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
1,576
18
I went back and looked at the other pictures and belive I see how the floor and sides meet. At the bow end where the sides start to curve up the floor is not in the same plane as the side? It will be nailed to the edge of the board, that has been planed to the same angle? The plywood will lay flat on the edge of the board? The board will be sitting on top of the plywood (not edge to edge), even in the up turned bow area?

Thanks,
beekeeper
 

FlaMike

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2007
624
2
Spring Hill, FL
www.ptponds.com
Beekeeper,

I think you described it pretty well. That part was what I had some trouble understanding at first, and once I was sure about it, making it happen was pretty straight forward, but a bit of a challenge for me, as I've not done anything quite like it.

I hesitate to jinx myself, but even though it was raining when I woke up this morning, it looks like I may have some good working weather for at least a good chunk of the middle of the day. However much it is, I will make the most of it that I can.

I need to set it up on the sawhorses, right side up, so I can "true up" the sides and transom again. All the moving in and out wasn't good for it. That won't take but a few minutes. I'll have to remove the transom and plane the faces of it, as it was cut from a rough-cut plank. Then I can glue and nail it in place. Once done, the boat comes off the sawhorses, the "work bench" planks come off and the sides and transom go back on the sawhorses upside down and then I'll double check the bottom by putting it in place, make some alignment marks, and take it back off. Then I can finally lay on the glue and nail the bottom in place.

I can tell you right now, the next build will NOT be subject to that moving in and out. I prefer working outside, so I guess I'll set it up so the whole thing can be rolled in and out as a single unit.

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
 

FlaMike

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2007
624
2
Spring Hill, FL
www.ptponds.com
Well, for once I was right about the rain! :D

The rain started while I was having my morning coffee. But looking at the weather radar, it looked like a single band of rain, with nothing following behind it. And sure enough, around 11, I was able to get the boat outside and started working. I was able to keep going until just about dark.

First off, I did do some tweaking of the side panels, still trying to get them to somehow match the shape of the severely bent plywood at the bow.



That's my "fine tuning tool." Stop laughing! The darned thing works! :lol:

The plan was to get it all lined up as closely as possible, then put on a layer of thin epoxy (slow hardener,) on the bottom of the plank sides, and another strip painted on the outer edges of the plywood. When the epoxy had kicked off and reached the seriously tacky stage, which it did, I then mixed up the thickened epoxy and applied it to the plank sides. I was lucky enough to have my wife help with this part. Once the epoxy has been mixed, you're pretty much committed to taking the next step! And once the clock starts ticking, it just runs faster and faster.

Then she was to help me place the plywood on top of the sides, so I could do the final positioning and start nailing it down. I still wasn't sure just how things would fit together at the bow, so I placed a couple of plastic-wrapped spacers near the "problem area" to make adjustments there easier.



Well, it sounded like a good plan to me. . . If you notice in the first picture in this post, those spindley-looking jigs (or mold frames) that I was using? Not particularly substantial, mostly held in place by a single, small finishing nail. Do you think something BAD is about to happen? :shock:

YES! Another "learning moment!" As we set the bottom in place on top of the sides, the very first movement to align the ply caused the whole thing to simply collapse, like a cheap card table in a high wind at a company picnic. My wife thought I just might explode, so she was getting ready to haul, uh. . . booty out of their, thinking that she didn't want to be within 50 meters of ground zero when I detonated. (She's nobody's dummy!)

But I figured I'd have time to have a hissy fit later. All I could think of was all that epoxy giving serious though to turning rock-hard solid. I reached under the mess and removed all the excess and now useless remains of my jigs, and lifted one side of the bottom up so we could stand a side plank on edge under it and then I lined up the back corner with the mark on the end of the plank and drove in a ring nail. I moved down the length of that side, lining up the edges and putting in nails as fast as I could for about four feet. Then we lifted the other side of the ply and positioned the other plank under it, again matching the marks at the back corner, then lining up the edges again, pounding in nails as I went.

In a very short period of time, I had the sides nailed from the stern, all the way up to where the planks started their curve to meet the ply at the bow. I just kept working my way forward, nailing as fast as possible, spacing the nails twice as far apart as I would have under other circumstances, knowing that I'd be back "filling in the blanks" once I had the thing stable. As I moved into the problem area, I was surprised to find that it wasn't too hard to get the planks pushed in to meet the edge of the ply as it bent from being the bottom, to forming the bow.

The last foot got harder to do, but using one of those orange nylon straps you've seen in earlier pics, I was able to keep pulling the planks in to meet the ply. Last week, I was certain that I'd end up having to remove a couple of inches from the outside edges of the ply in order for the planks to fit at the bow. However, now all I'll have to do is a little trim here and there, just like fitting the bottom onto a pirogue.

How'd it turn out?



MUCH better than I thought it would. 8) This pic was taken right after I was ready to move it inside for the night. The transom is sticking up a little high, but that's because I cut it a little high so I could plane it down nice and even with the sides. Below, is a view looking towards the bow, of the inside. You can see where I ran the epoxy down much further than needed, thinking that side plank just might not end up where it was supposed to.



Below, two more pics of what I thought was going to be the "problem area," but I am quite pleased with how it came out:





Over all, I had a pretty good day.

Next week, (still have to work the weekend,) the seat and poling platform goes on, the rub rails, then the varnishing starts. Unless it rains the entire week, the boat will teaching me how to use it, the following week.

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
 

Kayak Jack

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
13,553
97
82
Okemos / East Lansing Michigan
Kinda looks like a long, mortar box with a pointy end on it. It will have some interesting characteristics in the water.
Do you plan to reinforce the joint between sides and front? Maybe, a butt patch running the length of the joint along the inside?
 

FlaMike

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2007
624
2
Spring Hill, FL
www.ptponds.com
As for the "looks," I hope that when it's finished, it will look like the Glades Skiffs in the archive photos that I've downloaded, some of which have been posted by others in the "Worth a Build" thread in the General Forum. So far, it looks to me like it should fit in with those pics. One thing for certain, its look is certainly "unique." :D

As for re-enforcement, the ply has been epoxied to the plank and nailed as well. I'm not sure where any more than that is needed. In this case, the build was per design, at least as far as the "design" goes. It was from a few, simple drawings and a few pages of text. I'm confident it will hold together.

What remains to be seen is, will I be able to stay IN the boat. Its a tad narrow, I'm thinking and it was made to be poled, not paddled, and this done while standing. Should be interesting.

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
 

mike

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2009
661
5
TEXAS!
FlaMike said:
.......What remains to be seen is, will I be able to stay IN the boat. Its a tad narrow, I'm thinking and it was made to be poled, not paddled, and this done while standing. Should be interesting.

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
Please be sure to have someone video your first attempt at standing and poling...... :lol:

Mike