Glassing with cloth | SouthernPaddler.com

Glassing with cloth

coogzilla

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2008
171
0
So Cal USA
I have been held up finishing my pirogue cause I am thinking I'll
botch up putting the glass cloth on. I'm pretty good at making a mess
out of most anything. I want to get it done, but not end up looking
like it was done by a 5yr. old. Any tips or advice would be glad to
hear and welcomed. I see some of you guys do real nice work but
I'm not supervised. Thank's Coogs
 

mosportsmen

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2005
299
0
Kirksville MO
mosportsmen.com
I feel bad that no one has answered your post in this many days. It really is not that bad. My advice just do it. Your going to have to build a second boat anyway to get better at it. It won't be that bad. Go for it!
 

Lee Schneidermann

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2007
150
1
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
"There's no need to fear, Underdog is here!!"

Coogs,
I made sure I had the outside sanded nice and smooth. Tried to round off any sharp edges. (as per Matt & everyone elses instructions)
I then used a large terry-towel soaked in acetone and wiped the hull down of any dust.
Then I draped the cloth over the hull and positioned it where it needed to be. I used plastic-headed thumbtacks to keep the cloth in place at the bow & stern. (These needed to have darts cut in the cloth to keep bulging to a minimum)
I then mixed up a 6oz batch of epoxy and started in the middle of the hull, working my way to the ends.
Use a squeegy or a bondo spreader to work the epoxy into the weave.
Be firm but gentle and you'll get the "feel" of things as you go.
Keep looking for runs and sweep them off when you see them.
Then go back and look for runs and sweep them off when you see them.
Then go back and look for runs and sweep them off when you see them.

Even after that you'll probably have a few runs. Don't sweat it. You can scrape them off with a cabinet or paint scraper.

Good luck!!

Lee
 

Jimmy W

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2006
611
1
north georgia, USA
Lee has good advice, but I haven't used the xylene. I also prefer to spread the epoxy with a foam roller and then go back with a squeegee to get rid of any bubbles on the surface and remove any excess. I have had to replace the roller at least once during the job when the epoxy in the roller starts curing and heating up. On the inside, it is easier to do the ends separately then the middle. I just use the roller on the first coat while wetting out the cloth. For the other fill coats I just use the squeegee.

Jimmy
 

hairymick

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2005
2,107
2
Queensland, Australia
G'day Coogs,

Sorry for the late reply mate. I have been a little pre-occupied these past few weeks.

Preperation is EVERYTHING.

Starting with the boat itself, go over it several time, making sure all corners are rounded and smooth. There are no holes in your wood flour fillets etc and after that. lay your cloth flat on the outside of the hull to rest for a couple of days. Smooth it out and work out any wrinkles /ridges etc. This will help a lot when the magical time comes to wet it out.

I saturate my ply before I try to wet out the cloth. This minimises the wood absorbing the resin out of the cloth and makes the wet out easier.

After your cloth has rested on your hull a couple of days, ROLL up starting at one end and carefully work your way to to the other, being as careful as you can to avois and wrinkles forming again. and place it to one side.

Apply the saturation coat/s One is probably enough and screed the excess off with a squeegee.

Let your saturation coat go just touch dry so that it only very slightly tacky and then carefully work your cloth back into place along your hull. continue to work it to conform to your hull shape and when you are satisfied that all is nice and flat and in the right place, mix your wet out resin and apply with a roller.

There is an art to this stage. If you roll too vigorously, air will form in your resin and cause it to go a milky colour and this is a real PITA to get out. Roll SLOOOW and GENTLY and mix small batches at a time.

I prefer to mix several batches of about 100ml each (Not sure what that is in ounces but is equivalent to about 4 egg cups full )

I only use and recommend West Systems 105 resin and 207 special purpose hardener. West recommend a maximum of 12 hours between successive coats of resin to achieve the wet on wet application. This works well for me in that I can usually get the saturation coat and completely fill the cloth in a couple of days. :D

With each coat of resin, I apply with a foam roller and then lightly wipe any excess resin and runs off with a soft rubber bladed squeegee. This minimises sanding a great deal.

Kayak Jack has a very good post on the Jem site that I have found priceless. He made this post in relation to problems i was having on my first build and has helped me out no end. Jack, thanks mate. beer is still in the fridge. :D

Mick,

Get some small plastic cups; urine sample cups (new, of course) from a doctor's office are are good. If can't get them, use small, paper Dixie cups like are at a drinking fountain.

Using a measuring cup, carefully measure and pour one ounce of water into a cup, mark it. Also - MEASURE it with a ruler so you can replicate it easily. Now do the same with an ounce and a half of water.

Now, you can buy small, paper cups, easily mark them for 1 oz and 1 1/2 oz and use them for making smaller batches of epoxy. Make up a gaggle of pre-measured cups; they're a one-time use item.

Get larger, waxed, paper cups, 8 oz - 12 oz. Beer cups (used, of course) work well. Using a sharp knife or a razor knife, cut a sharp vee down into the lip at one point. Vee should be about 2" deep, and only about 1/16"-1/8" wide at the top. When you're laying epoxy and wiping it back off with the plastic squeegee blade, wipe the squeegee through this vee and it will deposit the excess epoxy into the cup.

I'll be there next week to help you use the new beer cups.
 

Dogwood

Active Member
Oct 13, 2008
37
0
Tampa
www.TrickyDogs.com
I have my UJ Pirouge all glassed in and out. The outside was easy, the inside was messy. I did the big center sections with one piece of cloth each, but for the end sections, I overlapped three pieces each.
After the outside was dry for a few days, I scuffed it up with 180 grit and then used a foam roller to add another coat of epoxy. Now that it's set up, it looks like this latest coat is beaded up like rain on a windshield. It looks fine when viewed straight on, but if you look from a low angle, it's pretty consistently beaded up.
I hope this doesn't mean the top coat isn't bonded to the cloth coat.
 

Lee Schneidermann

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2007
150
1
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
BEEN THERE DONE THAT!!

That's why I use acetone. It removes the anamine blush that forms on the surface of epoxy.

Use a sharp scraper to knock the "beads" down, wipe her down with acetone and go over her with a couple ounces of epoxy and a sqeadgee.

Things will look ship-shape in no time! :wink: :wink:

Lee
 

Dogwood

Active Member
Oct 13, 2008
37
0
Tampa
www.TrickyDogs.com
The beads are much smaller than rain on the windshield beads. I don't know if I can effectively knock them off with a scraper. What about going over the whole boat with 220 grit on an orbital sander, wiping down and the recoating?
 

oldsparkey

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
10,479
123
Central , Florida
www.southernpaddler.com
Sanding will work ( that is what I do ) but it takes longer then a scraper. Sanding is also safer since you can't scrape with it and gouge with a corner of it.
If a scraper is not help perfectly flat there is a good shot the corner of it will dig in deeper then you wanted.

After sanding and you put the epoxy on there , use a squeegee to even the epoxy out ( filling the voids and removing it from the high spots.)
You can get the squeegee from a auto parts place , they are plastic and in the body repair section of the store.

Chuck.
 

Dogwood

Active Member
Oct 13, 2008
37
0
Tampa
www.TrickyDogs.com
Now that I have the boat out of the garage and in the sunlight, I see that something definitely went wrong with yesterday's top coat of epoxy. It not only is beaded up, but it is still tacky 15 hours after application. I've been grinding away at it with 100 grit on an orbital sander and it is loading up the paper and leaving little pills of sticky epoxy on the hull. It seems like maybe I didn't mix the batch right, but I can't see how. I used the same measuring cups as always and stirred it real good. I'll try to take some pix and post em.
 

Dogwood

Active Member
Oct 13, 2008
37
0
Tampa
www.TrickyDogs.com
Here is a pic of my major malfunction.
Pirouge%20close%20up.jpg
 

a Bald Cypress

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2007
577
0
81
Northwest Louisiana
e

Yo Dogwood,

Hate being the one to ask this but, what type of epoxy and resin did you use ?

Just curious since I have never had a batch that came out like that.

[not to say it won't happen] just been lucky so far.

After 15 hours, it should have set up unless the temp is below freezing or it got wet.

Man, I hate to say this but, it MAY be that you will have to remove the glass and epoxy, sand the hull and start over.


Added, If the glass and the fill coats are in good shape, Then just using a scraper to remove that final coat and re-doing that bay be all that is needed.

DON'T DO IT JUST BECAUSE I MENTIONED IT. Get some expert advice before going to that trouble and expense.
 

Dogwood

Active Member
Oct 13, 2008
37
0
Tampa
www.TrickyDogs.com
The epoxy is from Fiberglass Coatings in St. Pete, FL. This coat is from the same jug as all of the other epoxy on this project. I did this in my garage in Florida and there wasn't anything unusual with the weather. Temp in the 70's and low humidity. I've been grinding on it with 80 grit and instead of dust, I get little pills that are so sticky, they won't blow off.
As of now, my plan is to wipe it down with Xylene and start building the seat. If I don't learn anything new in the next couple of days, I'll try painting it with latex house paint. If that goes OK, I'm going fishing.
 

Dogwood

Active Member
Oct 13, 2008
37
0
Tampa
www.TrickyDogs.com
I don't think I sprayed anything near the boat, but if I did it in my sleep, I did a very thorough job of it, because the screwy epoxy coat is evenly screwy over the entire hull.
 

oldsparkey

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
10,479
123
Central , Florida
www.southernpaddler.com
Just guessing on my part since a oily spray when it gets on the boat will cause the epoxy to have a dimpling effect.

As far as the epoxy not setting up , that happen to me one time and I went for broke and gambled. I put anouther batch of epoxy over it and it hardened. Figured if I had to scrape it off , two coats would be the same work as one.
Luck was on my side ... it worked. Not saying for you to do it , just what I did and lucked out on it.

Have you contacted the folks you got the epoxy from and see what they have to say about both problems.

Chuck.
 

Dogwood

Active Member
Oct 13, 2008
37
0
Tampa
www.TrickyDogs.com
I'll ask the guy at Fiberglass Coatings on Monday. I'll wipe it with the Xylene and then recoat just a small area to see what happens. I'm off to Lowes. I hope they sell Xylene.