new design in progress

[jdupre']

It's all Tx river rat's fault. His new "ugly boat" build inspired me to start a new build myself. I originally wanted to build something like the Freedom or the Laker, but changing them up somewhat. I expermented with the changes until there was almost nothing left of either design so I started from scratch. It's a 1/4 scale model to test the shapes and angles. Any suggestions will be welcome- kind of like a community build. Designer: Roll The Dice Fabircators , a subsidiary of Hot Air Designs headquartered in Waco , Texas. :lol:

Rear view.

Specs: 16' x 22" across bottom panels, approx 24" beam at waterline., rocker: 3"rear, 3.5" front. , Bottom 1.25" ?? V depth.

I figure the waterline will be about where the lowest nailhead is on the bow.

Probably do a peaked rear deck also.



Joey

 

[jdupre']

By the way, edge stapling the 1/4" luan works surprising well. Might save some work on a full sized build.

Joey

 

[Kayak Jack]

Observations:
1. Looks better than my boats already sigh
2. I'd do a less peaky aft deck
3. If you can work it, put a slight sag in the middle of your fore deck. Come back from the bow point a couple feet, shave off 1/16" to 1/8" from both pieces of ply for about 2 feet. Full cut in the center of that 2', tapering towards each end of your 2' cut.
4. I don't envision even you standing up in that boat.

 

[jdupre']

I'm planning on a small peaked back deck. The front deck already has a slight sag. It's hard to see at 1/4 scale. That's one of the fiddly bits I have to do during the build. Jack, this is going to be my stand-up flyfishing/bowfishing boat---..............NOT! :mrgreen:

 

[tx river rat]

What is the boat going to be used for?
Ron
How did that song go ,whys everybody picking on me.
Ron

 

[jdupre']

It's going to be mainly a cruiser. An easy paddler to eat up the miles on slow-moving bayous with an occasional trip out across some inland lakes. I'll probably be able to carry enough stuff for an overnight camping trip or two.

Ron, the cockpit will be something like your TV--- large opening between bulkheads.

Not picking on you at all, Ron. I admire your building and probelm-solving ideas.

Joey

 

[tx river rat]

I kidding JD
Open water is different,keep your decks low and as clost to balanced as you can ,It will sure help paddling into a head wind and the weather cocking from a cross wind.
I think you said 16 ft,at that length you get pretty good speed and the boat is long enough to handle bad water,I bet you will like that v bottom to .
Ron

 

[jdupre']

Ron, you suggest I keep the front and rear decks close to the same height?

The length will be 16' and with the plumb stern, about a 15' waterline length. Should be a good paddler. I've been reading quite a bit of John Winters design ideas. He did some tests and a canoe/kayak with moderate rocker has less water resistance than one with a straight keel line. Seems the less you have below the waterline at the bow and stern, the less resistance. You need only enough to track well and no more. I'm going to shoot for 3-3.5" of rocker because the boat should draw about 4" and that would leave just a little of the bow and stern below the waterline- or so I hope. :roll:

 

[Kayak Jack]

Joey, "balanced" fore and aft decks can be goosey to analyze. Under way, the bow will resist turning more than the stern. Even if fore and aft decks are equal in wind catching ability, the boat will still be more likely to swing tail away from the wind, and nose into the wind, because the bow tends to dig into the water and resists turning - weather cocking. That's why some boats have skegs on, to overcome design of decks.

Hydrodynamics and aerodynamics of a boat on a lake are quite different than those on a running river. On a river, water currents have the most effect on the hull. On a lake, air above the water has the most effect. Verlen Kruger worked diligently to design a boat with no corners to catch either wind or water. His hulls are fast.

 

[tx river rat]

Speaking of the Seawind boats by Kruger ,if you look at them they taper down from the cockpit,no upsweep are bowed deck,
I find just the opposite of what Jack stated the nose on my boat has a bigger tendency to swing than the stern does,normally I am loaded a little heavy in the rear. Maybe thats the difference when you cross the Mason ,Dixion line
Personally I think 3.5 inches is to much rocker,I would say closer to 2 inches and over half of that can be put in on the bottom v..
The best easiest boat I own to cruise in is the Cuda,look at the decks on it.
Ron

 

[Kayak Jack]

Ronnie, lose the habit of trying to refer to north and south. It detracts from your otherwise damned good posts.

 

[jdupre']

Personally I think 3.5 inches is to much rocker,I would say closer to 2 inches and over half of that can be put in on the bottom v..
Ron

I agree with you on that one. After I typed the specs in, I just kept getting the feeling that that was going to be too much. Better to be conservative on rocker than to have a boat that doesn't track well. Shouldn't be hard to fix. I'll just cut my reverse curve chine line a little higher and/or take out a little flair to bring the rocker down.

Ron, how deep is the bottom V in the Cuda?

Joey

 

[mike]

Ronnie, lose the habit of trying to refer to north and south. It detracts from your otherwise damned good posts.

Sorry, Jack, we still remember the War of Northern Aggression down here.

Mike

 

[jdupre']

Took a couple of inches of rocker out of the model. While I had it apart, I also increased the flair a bit so that it is equal to the flair of my pirogue. Never measured the actual angle but it's about "enough" degrees. :mrgreen:
Added a shorter peaked rear deck, also. If the finished boat comes out even close to this model, I'll be tickled pink.

y

 

[tx river rat]

Now Jack if I didnt pick on you everybody would think we are mad at each other. That post was said in a joking manner
but there is a lot of difference in the designs and boats that work the best in your part of the country and mine. They might not do the job as well for JD.
I am always going to be a red neck Texan and you are always going to be a Michigan yankee,its just where we were born.
Ron

 

[tx river rat]

JD
I like what you have done.
Ron

 

[jdupre']

Thanks, Ron. I just LOVE the design process. Cutting here, trimming there, making a few thousandths of an inch change to make that curve just right-- love it all. I think it should be a winner. It struck me as I looked at the top view--it's basically a 14' Laker with 2 feet of swoopy, skinny bow with a waterline length about 8-10" longer than the Laker 15.5. Can't go wrong with stats like that.

 

[Kayak Jack]

Ronnie, lose the habit of trying to refer to north and south. It detracts from your otherwise damned good posts.

Sorry, Jack, we still remember the War of Northern Aggression down here.

Mike

That's another mistake. Why try to keep being divisive? Lots easier to be friendly and look for reasons to bond rather than to look for reasons to be cocky and fight each other.

 

[Kayak Jack]

Joey, is the cockpit really that far back? Or is that an optical illusion? Seems it was just aft of center on the first shots. Did it move?

This boat looks like it will handle open water on those lakes quite nicely. And, will sneak up bayous quietly. A slight vee bottom could work to your advantage in mud, by not getting sucked into sticking to the mud, just rock to the other side and it could break loose?

Rocker, or lack of it, can affect your tracking on open water. I wouldn't know how much to advise on your boat until I saw water trials, then advice would be easy. I've always been skeptical of asymetrical rocker (more or less in front than in the rear) because the boat will settle to its own level any way. If a builder puts more rocker in the front, he could have gotten the same effect by simply making the deck lower.

 

[jdupre']

Jack, the cockpit location is something I'm going to have to work out as the build progresses. The cockpit is quite far back because of the assymetry. Check out the top view in the first post. Envision a Laker 14' with a normal cockpit location and then add 2 ft. of skinny hull to the bow that rides mostly out of the water. I figure to sit just behind the volumetric center and not the geographic center. Whew ! I'm tapped out with the big words now.