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New Plank Pirogue Duckin Boat.

Gamecock

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2012
101
0
#22
Hey there everybody, I'm finally going to start on my pirogues. I got a new saw and I have mounted it on a jig I made out of 2x4's that are cut on a 6 degree angle on one edge and then fastened together. Found this info on another boat site on the computer. Will need to be careful with this due to the exposed blade. This rig will scarf plywood up to 3/8 thick.
 

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Gamecock

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2012
101
0
#23
The following is a picture of the cypress planks I have to build with. There are 6 boards 1x12x14 feet long. They are all 6 surface planed on two sides, select grade without knots. However, 4 of them, "as you may see in the picture", are wider than one inch, being 1 and 3/8 thick. I was wondering if I should have them resawed in half creating two boards from one that would be 5/8 inch thick each. I have a local Amish man who can do this on Saturday, 8/25/18 for me. Any expert, experienced opinions would be very much appreciated. I don't want to mess up. Dave.
 

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seedtick

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2006
1,141
4
Denham Springs, LA
#25
I would not hesitate to build a pirogue with 5/8" thick sides using old growth cypress I have built with 1/2. Never heard of yellow cypress but guess (and looking at the growth rings) is that it may be what we call "grow back" or new growth. My experience with grow back is that it is stiffer and more brittle than the old growth. It's likely to be harder to bend and more easily split. Doesn't mean that it's not usable, just that you need to be aware before you start your build and proceed with more caution.
Bend slowly and predrill for nails near edges.

All that verbage aside, 5/8 should be fine, particularly if you're putting in ribs and a plywood bottom. Personally I like 5 ribs instead of 3. Five is more strength but also a bit more weight.
 

Gamecock

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2012
101
0
#26
I don't see a swivel cannon on there, matey. I figured you had a double naught gauge shotgun-type cannon there for ducks?
Hey Jack, no I plan on being legal with my waterfowling fire power. However years ago back home in Delaware our family went down to Chincoteague, Va. and watched a demonstration of a 0 gauge punt gun being shot from a sneak skiff,"similar to a pirouge". That was something to see. Dave.
 

Gamecock

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2012
101
0
#27
I would not hesitate to build a pirogue with 5/8" thick sides using old growth cypress I have built with 1/2. Never heard of yellow cypress but guess (and looking at the growth rings) is that it may be what we call "grow back" or new growth. My experience with grow back is that it is stiffer and more brittle than the old growth. It's likely to be harder to bend and more easily split. Doesn't mean that it's not usable, just that you need to be aware before you start your build and proceed with more caution.
Bend slowly and predrill for nails near edges.

All that verbage aside, 5/8 should be fine, particularly if you're putting in ribs and a plywood bottom. Personally I like 5 ribs instead of 3. Five is more strength but also a bit more weight.
Thanks Seedtick, this is regrowth cypress, I bought it a few years ago from Wilson lumber co. in Memphis, Tenn. they deal exclusively in cypress. I remember a photo by you and friend Keith where you tacked a board onto the end of the plank you were bending for the pirouges side using a come along . I figured that I might have to do this and just put a little more tension on it now and then till I get it bent. Got a book from Nicholas Poret from Youngsville, La. He uses 1/2 inch new growth for the sides and plywood bottom. But he fastens the sides to both stems and then spreads the sides with pipe clamps or spreader bars and then adds forms to hold them. I plan on using two forms to bend around. Seems like it would be easier to me. Any ideas? Dave.
 

Kayak Jack

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
12,931
57
81
Okemos / East Lansing Michigan
#28
0 gauge, interesting. Shotgun gauges were numbered by the size of a ball of lead. Taking lead weighing 1/12 th of a pound, and making a sphere, its diameter is what we know as a 12 gauge. The diameter of a lead ball weighing 1/20th of a pound is a 20 gauge. Etc.

Based on that, a 1 gauge could be the diameter of a 1 pound ball of lead. I wonder if, then, a 0 gauge is the diameter of a 2 pound ball of lead?

Seedtick has a lot of experience with cypress. Good guy to consult with.
 
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seedtick

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2006
1,141
4
Denham Springs, LA
#29
Thanks Seedtick, this is regrowth cypress, I bought it a few years ago from Wilson lumber co. in Memphis, Tenn. they deal exclusively in cypress. I remember a photo by you and friend Keith where you tacked a board onto the end of the plank you were bending for the pirouges side using a come along . I figured that I might have to do this and just put a little more tension on it now and then till I get it bent. Got a book from Nicholas Poret from Youngsville, La. He uses 1/2 inch new growth for the sides and plywood bottom. But he fastens the sides to both stems and then spreads the sides with pipe clamps or spreader bars and then adds forms to hold them. I plan on using two forms to bend around. Seems like it would be easier to me. Any ideas? Dave.

I don't know of anyone (else) that attaches the sides to both stems then jacks the sides out. Not saying it can't be done, but seems like it would put a lot of stress on the stem pieces. My stem pieces normally have two to three inches of flat surface touching (glued and nailed) each side. If you build your stems to the final angle, then the sides won't lay flat on the stem before it's jacked open. Likewise if the sides are flat on the stem sides before jacking, then you have a long lever (the side) trying to separate stem from sides when you jack it open. Maybe there's something I'm missing. Typically my stems are cut to 30 or 35 degrees, the sides are attached and glued, nailed and externally clamped, When the glue cures I start bending the sides around two jigs, one on each side of the center of the sides. I then pull the aft end of the sides together and fit the aft stem to whatever angle is formed when the sides meet - typically 20+ degrees. I end up with full face contact of the sides with the sides of both stems. Clamps on the bow stem don't come off until the aft stem glue is completely cured. Another thing is to make sure when you cut your stems so that the fasteners attaching the sides penetrate through 4 or 5 growth rings so the stresses wont split the stem. I hope this makes sense to you
 

oldbuffpilot

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2014
233
4
75
Central Kansas and Central Texas
#30
Hey there everybody, I'm finally going to start on my pirogues. I got a new saw and I have mounted it on a jig I made out of 2x4's that are cut on a 6 degree angle on one edge and then fastened together. Found this info on another boat site on the computer. Will need to be careful with this due to the exposed blade. This rig will scarf plywood up to 3/8 thick.
 

oldbuffpilot

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2014
233
4
75
Central Kansas and Central Texas
#31
Seedtick and Friend Kieth always amaze me with their knowledge. I hope to meet them someday on a La trip to visit our kids. I thought this might be a good time to share my experience with a similar skill saw jig that I use to cut cedar strips.Close call but powerful lesson. I have since bought a saw with an electric brake.
 

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seedtick

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2006
1,141
4
Denham Springs, LA
#33
scarf with a belt sander, much safer than circular saw

rough cut you panels to size be sure to allow for the scarf overlap. It's much easier to scarf panels that are narrower than four feet.

This is the way I do it
Lay a strip of metal on the edge of a table, put the first piece of plywood at the edge of the strip. Recess the second piece of plywood back to allow for the scarf. For example, if you're scarfing 1/4" plywood and want a 8 to 1 scarf, then back up the second piece 2" from the edge of the first piece. Then draw a line across the top of the second piece recessed back the same distance that the second piece is recessed from the first piece. Clamp a 2X4 across the both pieces onto the table to hold them down. Take your belt sander and sand from the line to the edge of the metal strip. Sand until you get an even slope from the line to the metal strip. Use the glue lines in the plywood to guide you, they should be even and parallel to each other. Practice on a couple of scrap pieces of plywood. Once you do it a couple of times, it'll become quite easy. If a belt sander is too aggressive than use a RO sander
 

Gamecock

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2012
101
0
#35
Well, I took the planks over to the Amish guy with the bandsaw mill on Saturday and we tried to resaw them in half, lengthwise. I picked out the one board which contains several knots to try first. It didn't work out like we hoped so we quit right there before we ruined a board. I then called up a different Amishman from another settlement about 75 miles east of me, who is in the hardwood flooring business. He makes his own hardwood flooring and uses a huge planer/sander that has a throat over 4 and 1/2 feet wide and I'm not sure how high. This machine is run by hydralics and is approx. 6 feet square not counting in and outfeed tables and about 9 or so feet tall. It suited him to do the boards that same day, so I drove over to his place and he dressed everything up. Now I have 5 boards 5/8 inch thick and 2 boards 3/8 inch thick. The boards will be a lot easier to bend now. I'll post pictures of them when I start to build. It wants to rain everyday now. We couldn't even buy any rain this summer. Waiting for a dry spell to start plus I need to cut hay again too. Dave.
 

oldbuffpilot

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2014
233
4
75
Central Kansas and Central Texas
#36
Dave , thanks for taking time to post.Looks like a fun project with some meaning to you. It's funny how we pick up good ideas from these post. We have a similar Mennonite community close by, that built our kitchen table. They also have lots of equipment, knowledge, and willingness to help. I'd just never thought about them being a resource before. I will now!
Andy
 

seedtick

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2006
1,141
4
Denham Springs, LA
#39
Just a suggestion...…….
Typically you want the side of the board that was facing the outside of log to be the outside of the boat. Once you've picked out the two boards that you want for the sides, lay them flat, side by side with each end supported - say on a 2X4 or larger. Put a weight in the middle of each board and check how much it bends, you want both boards to deflect as close to each other as possible. If not as you bend around the jig, the more flexible board will bend more and the center line of your bow and stern stems won't line up. You'd be surprised how planing just 1/32" off the stiffer board will make a difference.