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Test on stability of asymetrical hull

oldsparkey

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
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Central , Florida
www.southernpaddler.com
Jimmy W said:
I bet that fool has made more money from his writing than you have.
You mean copying others ideas and making a book from them while tossing in some really bad ideas of your own... Yes he has made more money if money is something you worship and want a lot of. I will even bet he has made a lot off of endorsements for things he has never used but tells everyone they are his favorite.

So I have to agree with you 100% he has made more and it appears to me that was or is his primary objective with the notoriety that follows along behind it.
Any fool can wright a book , look at our president.

Myself , I believe if a person really takes something seriously he knows or try's to learn all he can about it and what works for him and folks in other areas. He has tunnel vision on a lot of things and what works in his area sure stinks in another area.

In plan words he is riding on the coat tails of a lot knowledgeable people who have written books in the past and that let him copy there ideas and combine them into a book he can claim. He doesn't even give them credit for it , grabs all of it for himself the hypocrite.
If he would of just left out some of the things he thinks are the way to do because they sure smell like a road kill down here when it is done HIS Way. His disciples are blind to anything he has not suggested and will do it that way no matter what.
It's what I like to call , Monkey was told , Monkey does , monkey will not adapt.

Jack... I don't think it is bad judgment , you claim to be a buddy of his and you are very protective of him when someone says the truth. I have learned that in the past because you always come to his defense like this time.
 

Jimmy W

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2006
611
1
north georgia, USA
I don't own any of Cliff's books and have never read any of them, so I'm not in a position to comment on them. But if he is copying the ideas of knowledgeable people like the racers that like to paddle slightly nose down then he might be worth listening to. I never heard of a difference between southern naval architecture and northern naval architecture except that their water gets hard in the winter.
 

Kayak Jack

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
13,976
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Okemos / East Lansing Michigan
It's pretty common knowledge that you trim a boat nose heavy when paddling into a stiff headwind. Not for speed, but for progress. A nose high boat is more likely to get turned by the wind. A nose low boat tends to weather vane and remain more controllable. Chuck already knows that.
 

oldsparkey

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
10,409
109
78
Central , Florida
www.southernpaddler.com
Kayak Jack said:
It's pretty common knowledge that you trim a boat nose heavy when paddling into a stiff headwind. Not for speed, but for progress. A nose high boat is more likely to get turned by the wind. A nose low boat tends to weather vane and remain more controllable. Chuck already knows that.
Dran Jack , don't give all my secrets away. :wink:
 

WDfrmTN

Well-Known Member
tx river rat said:
Wd
You need to go back and look at the pics, the weights were set the same distance from the centerline both directions.
The sides have no bearing on initial stability or very little, the half inch sides would represent about a 4 inch water line so that was enough.
I dont understand your statement about weights . With the weight in the same place from the center lines , adding or subtracting weight doesnt effect the out come.
I have boats that are asymmetrical and symmetrical and I guarantee the asymmetrical has more initial stability.
First, I'm not bustin yer chops, just offering constructive criticism, okay?
The centerline I'm talking about is the fore/aft centerline, running from bow to stern. Looks like your stiffener runs along that line, which would put your weights to the side of centerline (no matter where placed) to induce a rolling moment.
What I am talking about concerning the weights is this (if I can state it understandably): scale model bouyancy and test weights needs to be comparable to full size boat bouyancy and test weights. Maybe this make sense - if the model boat characteristics match the full size, and if the bricks, chunk of metal (whatever is used for the weight) are comparable to a 170-200lb man, and they are placed along fore/aft centerline, then the test makes good results.
Any deviation from the scale would skew the results.
 

tx river rat

Well-Known Member
Feb 23, 2007
3,043
2
Waco Tx
Ok here we go again , I don't know this Cliff but ,if his reasoning is like Jack stated
It want fly as a general rule of thumb .
Trimed nose high in any of our 13 to 16 ft boats ,means a 1 inch to 2 inch trim, now if I trim it 6 inches high the wind might effect it, nose down paddles like a drunk pig , just try trimming your boat an 1 inch down and try it. You will feel like your paddling in mud a lot of drag and side to side movement out of the boat. Guys I probably paddle more and higher wind on the Brazos than most folks you know. Believe me I have tried it every way I could think of to help
In a 15 lb 21 ft K1 you might have to trim different because of the light weight and taking advantage of a longer water line but these are Olympic class paddlers,not us
Some of the community I am around are racers from the Colorado 100 mile race, and the Texas water Safari one of the toughest races around , they trim level are just a tad high.
Go to utube and watch the race video,s
WD I am not saying you are busting my chops you made a statement that since you have clarified. I still cant figure out why you feel like the amount of weight matters , a 50 lb kid could roll these boats just like a 350 lb man would , so the amount of weight doesnt matter as long as it is heavy enough to roll the boatss
Oh and let me clear up something that maybe I didnt make clear, the line I used was where your butt sits that is the major weight point but not all of it. if you plant your butt on the center line of a boat you will be nose down ,the weight from your legs feet boots will be in front of center. Maybe that will explain why this position isnt way tail heavy
Ron
 
is it worth saying that part of the reason we put our seats aft of the center line is due to the weight of our legs forward of the centerline? Sit in your boat with your legs crossed and see how differently it performs. I would hazard a guess that the center of weight with your legs outstreched wiil be pretty close to mathematical center on a symetrical boat

I am thouroughly enjoying this thread. I save it to read with my morning coffee when I arrive at work while my backups are going on. I have completely forgotten what it may be about in the first place but it's good reading still the same.