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Another homemade hammock-- take 2

Kayak Jack

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
12,973
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81
Okemos / East Lansing Michigan
#61
Back packers claim that 2 ounces of wool/fleece cap is worth 2 pounds of sleeping bag.

Sleeping nude? Lessee, if I put less insulation between me and the cold, I'll be warmer. As a guy who has slept out in 0 degree weather, let me tell you something - sleeping nude to stay warm is BOAT SCIENCE!

First thing about staying warm is to have down bag. don't stint, get a good one. quality counts in sleeping bags just as it does in plywood and everything else in Life. Buy one for 20 degrees colder than you are planning to sleep in. Their ratings are overly optimistic.

Keep the bag dry. Pack it in its nylon stuff bag. Put that into a plastic trash compacter bag. They are much heavier and stronger than a standard plastic garbage bag. Squeeze out excess air, and twist the neck, then bend it over into a goose neck. Protect the plastic bag in another nylon stuff bag. Protecting it like this will keep it safe and dry.

For me, polypropylene sock liners from Campmor work to keep my feet warm. I wear them 24 hours a day, summer and winter.
 

grandpa paddler

Well-Known Member
May 25, 2005
191
0
71
WNY-land of exhorbitant taxes
#62
Kayak Jack said:
For me, polypropylene sock liners from Campmor work to keep my feet warm. I wear them 24 hours a day, summer and winter.
Glad to see someone else does that. The guys I do river trips with laugh at me. Even my oldest son, who is usually my tandem partner, makes fun of me. A couple of the guys in the group wear 10" leather (steel toed) work boots, denim jeans & cotton flannel shirts but nobody makes fun of them.

When it's warm, I wear just the polypro liners with my water shoes; keeps sand and grit away from my skin. When it's cool, I wear the liners inside wool socks and my water shoes. When it's even cooler, I wear high rubber boots, heavy wool socks w/liners. When it's cold, I go skiing :D :D :!:
 

tx river rat

Well-Known Member
Feb 23, 2007
3,043
2
Waco Tx
#64
I agree with this a hundred percent
Back packers claim that 2 ounces of wool/fleece cap is worth 2 pounds of sleeping bag

I agree with this ,but I hate mummy bags so I use a rectangle one that is synthetic it works even wet.
First thing about staying warm is to have down bag. don't stint, get a good one. quality counts in sleeping bags just as it does in plywood and everything else in Life. Buy one for 20 degrees colder than you are planning to sleep in. Their ratings are overly optimistic

This one I totally disagree with
Sleeping nude? Lessee, if I put less insulation between me and the cold, I'll be warmer. As a guy who has slept out in 0 degree weather, let me tell you something - sleeping nude to stay warm is BOAT SCIENCE!

First I have tried it,and it works. I spend from 1 to three weeks in the moutains hunting every year anywhere from minus 5 to in the thirtys at night ,all tent camping.
The guys that clued me into this are use to 30 and 40 below 0 would be a balmy day, They work play and live at those temps.
The oil basicly closed your pores and if you dont think that makes a difference just get out in a hundred degree day then rub oil on you will burn up, Any thig that constricts shuts blood flow down and that is heat from your core,
It is like walking in a room that is warm from 0 degree weather out side ,you take of coat and gloves to warm up ,it is the same in a sleeping bag the heat from your body that is generated inside the bag is insulated from your feet by the socks,A pad helps a tremdous amount if placed under your bag but you put it outside not inside with you,that the reason you dont sleep in your coat or clothes.

Dam I new I smelled something on that PK trip
For me, polypropylene sock liners from Campmor work to keep my feet warm. I wear them 24 hours a day, summer and winter.
Jack I am not trying to ague with you ,I just know these things work for me,I dont get numb hands, I hurt like you hit them with a hammer, so I have tried a lot of things and this works for me best.
Ron
 

Kayak Jack

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
12,973
68
81
Okemos / East Lansing Michigan
#65
Hey! if it works for ya, Ron, use it. My 'sperience worked out differently.

My synthetic bag (Either hollofill or quallofill) was colder'n a well digger's a$$ in Siberia. Down cured that. Clothes keep me warm and the sweat evaporates off me, cooling me, and condenses on the bag, heating the bag the exact same amount it cooled me. Upshot is, I'm comfortable and I didn't take an oil bath to get there. And,my sleeping bag isn't all oily either.

I think it's good to show different experience bases and conclusions. Guys can use different techniques and use what they like.
 

oldsparkey

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
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Central , Florida
www.southernpaddler.com
#67
I have two down bags one is a 0 degree and the other is a 20 degree , also have a quallofill 40 degree bag and that is what I used on the last trip. :D Which made me very happy.

After the storm Darrell helped me wring most of the water out of it and I packed it away. Later at the motel I hung it over the canoe ( the bag was fully opened) and in a short time it was completely dry , something you can't do with a down bag. The Texas gentile breezes and sun light did there trick.

I guess the main trick is not having your sleeping bag swimming in your tent but sometimes things don't go the way they are planned. :lol: The synthetic bags are great for there ability to dry out really fast and if you are on an extended camping trip and it gets wet you know it will dry and can be used the next night. With a down bag I would of been up that preferably river if it would of been an extended trip.

"O" .... for extra warmth a person can use what is called a sleep sack inside the bag ... it is nothing more then an envelope shaped like the bag to be used inside the bag , they are either cotton or silk.

Chuck
 

Kayak Jack

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
12,973
68
81
Okemos / East Lansing Michigan
#68
oldsparkey said:
... "O" .... for extra warmth a person can use what is called a sleep sack inside the bag ... it is nothing more then an envelope shaped like the bag to be used inside the bag , they are either cotton or silk.
I bought one of those bags, made of fleece. Thought I was the smartest guy for 17 counties around. It didn't seem to work well for me. I got so twisted up in the darned thing I couldn't hardly get out of the bag and almost wet myself in the middle of the night. (sigh) I went back to a good bag.

I also keep my bag dry with a plastic liner inside the tent. Visqueen 12" longer and 12" wider than the footprint. Then, fold up the corners and tape them so I have a 6" wall all the way around. Now, if Chuckie's tent leaked on top, that wouldn't have worked. I tend to tie my tents down a bit more, and that may, or may not, have saved me.
 

tx river rat

Well-Known Member
Feb 23, 2007
3,043
2
Waco Tx
#69
I have several bags including a down mummy bag,
On the trip I had a 40 degree summer bag with a couple hand warmers throwed inside,I was comfortable.
For moutain camping I have a oversize rectangle bag with 6 lbs of holli fill ,In that bag I am good down to about 5 above
I guess I need to clarify someting for Jack the oil thig was for temps below 0
The down bags have one advantage over the synthetic bags, they can be compressed smaller.
I always use a cot and very seldom use a ground cloth,but I normally set my tent on a small slop if possible.
Chuck and Bears tents were tied pretty good it broke the alum tent poles in the middle.
Ron

I think I need this signature
There is no perfect tent ,wood,boat or women.
 

oldsparkey

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
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Central , Florida
www.southernpaddler.com
#71
Jack...
I don't want to get into a pissing contest but you were not there , did not have all the fun / worry and a little panic and you know very little about electrical storms , something I live with ever day down here and understand to well for all my life.
Snow and cold are your expertise not mine , for that I trust your judgment and would never 2nd guess you on that.

My tent did not , I repeat ... Did Not leak from the top , the side was beating me in the back and then all hell broke loose and the water came in like someone was using a fire hose.
Those tents have mesh above the drip line just below the rain fly and in this case the drip line was something nasty. The darn thing was in a "U" shape with the rain fly adding to the problem. I tried to push everything back to normal or just hold the one side down and that is when it tried to come loose and roll me over with all of the mesh above me and the rain fly just directing the rain into the tent with me.

The rain and wind was not coming down at a 45 degree angle it was coming in at a perfect 90 to the ground , or level with the landscape.
Trust me you would of needed to be there to enjoy all of this while the lighting is constantly flashing above the camp site. Not a nice place to be. There was no time difference between the flash of lighting and the clasp of thunder it was all together and right in our neighborhood. I am sure if you would of been there you would of tossed your drawers away or buried them when it was over. Since Central Florida is the lighting capital of the states and we live with it all the time I had a good idea of what was going on and did not like it one bit and I have had it that close here in the past , especially that one time it hit a tree near me and the tree bark hit my vehicle. Yep I was safe in the vehicle , I'm no dummy.
By the way the tent was tied down like Bear told you , both his and mine , for what unless or futile effort it was worth in doing so.

My guess is that you have never had that pleasure or the enjoyment of being saturated in your sleeping bag while trying to not let the storm blow you into the river off a sand/gravel bar.

The happy side is that the inside of the tent , myself , and all the gear was flooded along with the collapsed top being flooded with all of that water weight holding things in place while the wind tried to push it to the next state.

Trust me it is no fun but something to live threw while the sky is throwing electricity all around you , the wind is trying to wrap you up like a boretto and the rain is making a lake in your tent. The tents could of been tied down with Logging Chains and I think it would of not done a dam bit of good. Mother Nature wants to take you for a ride .... You Will Go on that Ride. :oops:
I could see me becoming a fried boretto dinner for the Coyotes or catfish and my wife being a rich widow , no way I can let that happen. :lol:

Next time you can do it ... try camping in a 90 mph wind and rain and then see what your tent will stand up to... Hell the storm even tried to toss Darrell around when he was rolled up in a tarp down by the water and in the lowest protected area , it was not the normal /mild 40 or 50 mph rain and wind a camper runs up against at the very worst of times. We had winds stronger then that paddling to the take out.
The winds when the sun just started coming up would blow us around on the gravel/sand bar and I mean really blow us around when just standing up , you had to lean into them to stay upright.

This was something I never had had happen to me and like I said I have camped in three Hurricanes and compared to this time , they were a summer breeze. You had to be there to enjoy all of it. I'm just tickled that all we lost were a few minor possessions and not our lives or boats , even thought I was sure the boats would be a few miles down river or way over in the woods when it was over with. Heck , it would of been a easy hike out or just call that ranch foreman Ron knows who visited about mid day. Can always get new gear and make another boat.

Anyway...........
Back to staying warm in a bag when Mother Nature is not trying to soak an cook and BBQ you....... I have both the cotton one and the silk sleep sack...... They do one heck of a good job on adding extra warmth inside the bag... the silk one more then the cotton one. Plus they can be used as a sleeping bag when the weather warms up by using them on the top of your bag. Again the silk one will keep you cooler in the heat then the cotton one. I really like the silk one for the summer camping here in the south.

They can also be used in motels where there is a question about the covers on the bed. :D :D

Chuck.
 

bearridge

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2005
3,092
4
way down yonder
#72
This wuz my second trip report when lightnin' wuz bad az it gits. Both times there wuz no where ta run, no where ta hide. The first time I wondered if they mite find part of me melted inta parts of my plastic boat. This time I wuz a ole hand. I jest laid there 'n tried ta go back ta sleep. I wuz wet, but I slept wet before. I figgered if anybody needed any help, they'd give a holler. I did git jest a bit of shut eye, but the tent slappin' my head kept wakin' me up.

I hope a big hoodoochie with lightnin' dont come ta breakfast no more....ferever. I jest dont like waitin' ta see if a big bolt fries me like a hushpuppy.

regards
bearridge

It was an American tradition, like fathers chasing kids around with power tools.  unknown high school student
 

Kayak Jack

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
12,973
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81
Okemos / East Lansing Michigan
#73
You're right - I wasn't there and can only try to visualize it. I guess it answers one of my questions about aluminum tent poles in a lightning storm. If it was gonna attract to the metal poles, it likely would have there.

I'm glad all you guys are safe, if not yet mentally sound. I've had winds, but I don't think they were ever nearly as bad as you guys describe.
 

gbinga

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2008
736
2
Hoschton, GA
#76
I've been following along with this and I wonder if the tent poles are really an issue.

Airplanes are made of metal, and lightning hits them, and the folks inside are usually safe. Ditto automobiles.

The lightning passes through the metal skin and frame of the vehicle on it's way to ground. Doesn't bother the person inside, because the metal skin and/or frame is a much better conductor.

It isn't the tires on a car that save you. If there is enough voltage to make an arc from the clouds to the ground then a few inches of rubber won't make any difference. What saves you (I believe) is all the metal you are surrounded by.

I suspect that metal tent poles might actually protect you (at least somewhat) the same way a lightning rod system protects a house. Give the lightning a path to ground, and it will follow that path and leave you alone.

I'm not saying the metal tent poles would make me feel SAFE in the situation ya'll were in - I just don't think they added any extra danger.

GBinGA
 

oldsparkey

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Aug 25, 2003
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Central , Florida
www.southernpaddler.com
#77
In a airplane you are not grounded , anyway I would hope you aren't. A car has the metal all the way around it and again you are not grounded but actually insulated in a shell with the rubber tires acting as insulation between you and the ground. Convertibles don't fair as well in a lighting strike , they are not a metal shell.

In the tent you have a metal frame work over you and nothing else but some cloth. The metal frame is grounded because it is touching (on or in ) the ground. In our (My ) case there was other conductive matter ( a flooded tent and everything in it ) to aid the electricity in frying me. A metal framed , wet , saturated , tent and camper are grounded and would act as a conductor for the electricity. Lighting could of hit the frame work , gone down all 4 poles with me in the center. Can you say ... Par Boiled. :roll:
Remember electricity is like water , it takes the easiest path to the ground and water is one heck of a good conductor.

At the best in a dry tent , on a rubber sleeping pad and not touching the ground or being wet you would stand a chance of making it out safe if that criteria was meet.
Safer yet in a hammock , up off the ground and insulated by the trees holding the hammock and the air under you. Best if the trees were some shorter ones near tall ones since the lighting would strike the taller trees 1st.

The safest way is to not be anywhere near lighting , not as the tallest thing on a sand/gravel bar , I would of loved to have been up in those woods protected by the trees , heck they would of even calmed the wind down a bit.

Chuck.
 

oldsparkey

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
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Central , Florida
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#78
As an afterthought.......

I have investigated the death of cows out in a pasture after a storm. They were hit with lighting and the lighting grounded itself after going threw the cow and left what I call spider web tracks in the ground. They are one sure fire way to know it was lighting.
At the ground the spider web tracks radiate out in a pattern from one leg of where the cow was standing to the other legs leaving what might look like a cricket mole burrow in the dirt. Some radiate out from the area but 90% are inside where the 4 legs were touching the ground.

Now in a 5 x 7 tent with a metal cross member and 4 tent legs going down I think it is a safe bet to say the lighting would do the same as when it hit those cows. It would radiate between the tent legs saturating the 5 x 7 inside portion of the tent with all sorts of electricity. Just speculation on my part from what happens when a cow is struck and I hope I never get to find out if I am right on that.

If anything it would melt the tent poles and crispy critter the tent material , plus the camper since they say that a bolt of lighting is the same temperature as the surface of the Sun. There is no way a person would survive unless by divine intervention.

Chuck.
 

dangermouse01

Well-Known Member
Sep 8, 2006
312
1
Palm Bay, FL (East coast)
#79
Just a question for all you hammock types.

If you where on TRR's last Brazo paddle, sleeping in a hammock tied to a tree, in a lightning storm (never mind the winds for now).
Since hunkering down under a tree during a lightning storm is a no-no.

What would you do in that situation?
What do the experts advise that you do it that type of situation?

Just wondering.

DM
 

tx river rat

Well-Known Member
Feb 23, 2007
3,043
2
Waco Tx
#80
DM
In my little feeble mind we were in the safest place we could be,the only thing that was lower than we were was the river . Within 30 yards of our tents the sand bar was taller than we were , then the tree line was much taller,and the bank on the otherside of the river was at least 30 feet taller than we were. .
In a lighting or wind storm I dont want to be in the trees ,limbs falling ,a heck of a lighting rod you are tied to and from personal experience I have seen what happens to folks that are within a few yards of a tree that is hit with lighting,It doesnt have to be a direct hit.
I want to add a question to your post what would have happened if Bear or Chuck were in hammocks with the wind we had,or how do you think they would have reacted.
Ron
I guess my thinking on riding a storm like we had out is do what you think is the safest ,and if its your time its been a heck of a ride.