New Carry Gun

[oldsparkey]

John....
In the house they are close by and the wife and I know there locations.

In the vehicle it is in the slot on the drivers door or in the glove box. Out walking around , in the pocket or some other concealed spot depending on the weather and clothing worn. Same for camping.

Sometimes out camping it is in my bag or waterproof box with the camera and medicine which is always within a arms reach. A general rule of thumb over here is that everyone you meet out in the woods has a weapon/firearm of some description with them. It is a rare situation if they don't.
That is one reason it is safe to be out in the woods , everyone knows that the other person is armed.

Only exception to that is like a few years ago , a mental wacko stole a rifle and hitchhiked to Ocala National Forest and decide to use folks for target practice , he picked on a young couple that was hiking and camping and killed both of them. They were unarmed and could not defend themselves against the guy with the rifle.

Every case we hear about ( Makes the news ) the folks are unarmed and at the mercy of the bad guys , never hear about someone armed getting shot or hurt.

It's best to have it and not need it then to not have it and need it.
Due to my previous occupation I like to have one since there are some folks that really don't like the vacation's I gave then at the gray bar motel and swore if or when they ever got out my health was in jeopardy. For that reason I think of it as an insurance policy for getting older.
Besides after 27 years of having one with me everyday. I feel naked without one of the paper weights along for company.

Chuck.

 

[dawallace45]

John

There is a old saying " a armed society is a polite society " and generally this is true , the only time it isn't is when only a certain section of society is armed , here in Australia and in certain areas of the USA the only people armed are the criminals and the Police , many people don't realise in some areas of the USA the laws are as strict as they are here in Australia , generally more restrictive gun laws don't reduce crime they actually act to increase it , before the new gun laws here in Australia violent crime had been on a steady decrease for some 15 years , right after the new laws we saw a steady increase in violent crime and crimes like home invasion become much more prevalent , for the most part we don't have the same problem with ethnic drug gangs here as they do in the USA but this is changing , our major cities are having gang problems more and more , the level of violence with in the drug culture is escalating , I have a number of mates in the Queensland Police force and several of them are putting in for transfer to far western towns rather than serve in Brisbane , the western posts used to be seen as punishment posts now they are desirable .

The whole concept with armed civilians as a crime deterrent is that there are normally three groups involved in or with crime , the perpetrator , the victim and the police , the perpetrator and the police are armed , arm the victim and he or she is no longer a victim , in pretty much all the states in the USA where they have enacted Shall issue laws that allow people to get a licence to carry a pistol concealed the crime rate has gone down ,

Remember the Police tend to be reactive rather than proactive , for police to be a complete deterrent to crime you would need 1 armed police man to every member of the general public , and that of course is not going to happen

I saw a interview with Mark " Chopper " Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Brandon_Read where some one asked him about gun laws , he said that most criminals were greatly in favour of gun laws as it made their work place safer if they were the only ones with guns , he went on to say that gun laws couldn't do any thing about criminals getting guns all they do is stop law abiding citizens from being able to defend them selves , he went on to say that after his release from prison each time it took him less than 20 minutes to get a illegal handgun , he also went on to say that seeing as how he was a toe cutter if it took much longer to get a gun his chances of survival were slim , in the interview he also said that he didn't really see him self as a criminal rather as a garbage man doing a public service by praying on the drug dealers , funny man !

In all the states in the US that have enacted shall issue laws the anti's have tried to make out it would be the wild west with shootouts in the streets over parking spots or some such but it never happened , but when it's all said and done if you don't feel comfortable carrying a gun than you probably shouldn't , as soon as you take on the concealed carrying of a pistol you take on a whole new responsibility , some will accept that responsibility , some won't

A guy I traded email with for several years got him self a carry license a few years back when his state enacted shall issue laws , this guy has been a life long hunter but had noting to do with handguns and took the advice of friends to get a .45 ACP 1911A1 as his carry gun , now this is a pistol close to my heart but not really that good a gun for carry while wearing shorts and tee shirt which is his normal mode of dress for most of the year , he found that because of that he wasn't really able to carry all that often and not being a pistol shooter before and having the .45ACP as his first pistol he really couldn't hit any thing with it and had developed a horrific flinch , I suggested a Beretta 71 in .22 rimfire and he was able to track one down , last time I talked to him he told me that the Beretta goes on with his pants and he always has it with him , being a rimfire and having cheap ammo he's been able to practice enough to be come extremely proficient with it

If you ever get the chance read the Book " Armed and Female " by Paxton Quigley http://www.paxtonquigley.com/ , very good read , she was a anti- gun activist who started researching the facts and because of that completely changed her stance on the matter to become a pro-gun activist

David

 

[john the pom]

It's all good. I was never having a whinge about whether or not the individual should or should not be allowed to carry a gun. Over the years I have heard arguments for and against. I simply wondered how those of you that do go armed decide when, or if you will.

I can well imagine benefits from being armed in isolated enviroments such as camping paddling etc. That's because we all have encountered the occasional lunatic and quite frankly shooting a few of them dead might curb antisocial behaviour patterns. The problem I have with gun ownership is that some of the people I know that do own guns are the last people on the planet that should be allowed to. This leads me to think that the right to bear arms should not apply to everyone.

 

[Wannabe]

Who gets to decide who gets a gun and who doesn't. Probally some liberal. And that's still gun control.
Bob

 

[tx river rat]

Boy ya'l ar going to like this :shock: I think that every mentally cabable
person over 21 yrs old and with no violent convictions should have to carry anytime he was outside his or her residence not conceled.
In Nam everyone was packing and some with enough ordanace to take out a town , I have never seen a shot fired have seen knife fights fist fights but no gun play , I think it is because they could not win they pulled a firearm they were way outnumbered.
Ron
Of course the mentally capable part leaves Jack out

 

[dawallace45]

The people who shouldn't have them will always be able to get them , laws only stop the law abiding from having them

David

 

[Kayak Jack]

... This leads me to think that the right to bear arms should not apply to everyone.

It gets to be a balance, I think. It is better to limit guns and let only criminals be armed? Or, is it better to have many armed, including a few nut cases?

In which scenario do you get fewer people being shot? That's the scenario that then, makes the most sense to tolerate.

Another scenario is to eliminate all humans, then the senseless shooting will stop.

 

[hairymick]

Dave,

Mark "Chopper" Reid is a punk. Certainly, a punk with personality but still a punk just the same. He has cashed in on other crims stories and claimed them as his own and obtained a very healthly living in the process along with a degree of notoriety.

The other points you make are spot on the money. Some of my crims tell me that they feel much safer now that the public has been largely disarmed. They can go about the business or raiding other peoples homes, violating their lives (and at times destroying them) with impunity. Very few victims are in a position to defend themselves or their loved ones anymore and the Police are so scarce on the ground that there is little to no chance of a timely intervention.


Would I carry a side arm if I could ?

You bet your life.

My weapon of choice would be a Smith & Wesson .38 Special revolver loaded with wad-cutters and full powder. :twisted: not flash but very effective and totaly reliable.

Would I use it in the right circumstances.

Hell yeah!!

We desperately need jails like that one with the tent city in Arizona. I just love the bloke running that place and would work for him in a heartbeat.

 

[john the pom]

Jack wrote: " It gets to be a balance, I think. It is better to limit guns and let only criminals be armed? Or, is it better to have many armed, including a few nut cases?

In which scenario do you get fewer people being shot? That's the scenario that then, makes the most sense to tolerate."


Ok I'm still not knocking gun ownership but seriously I reckon if you compare the number of gun crimes in America with other countries, the majority of which has a predominantly Anglo Saxon heritage. (Wow that was tricky to say without offending lotsa people), and that do not as easily allow gun ownership: you'd find you shot a hole in your own argument. 8)

However as in my initial post on this. I'm still more about When people carry guns than if they do.

 

[bearridge]

Friend john,

I dont tote a gun too often, but I keep 'em close by. I aim ta tote one more often in places where I figger a wacko mite show up, but I been a bit slow on that. I jest hope I dont ever have ta give myself some upper cuts fer bein' slow. :?

Az fer balance. Jest knowin' we the people got guns makes our guviment think twice. When folks dont have guns, guviments kin do what they want. I like that balance. So did Jefferson, Madison, Washington, Franklin. Paine 'n the others.

regards
bearridge

It's an old habit. I spent my life trying not to be careless. Women and children can be careless, but not men. Don Corleone

 

[oldsparkey]

John....

Something the news and the rest is not telling you..... Most if not 90% ( if not more ) of the gun related crimes are done by folks that have a darker sun tan then I do and hail from a large continent across the pond from us in America that starts with the letter "A". Anyway there relatives came from there.

Plus I can give a chit if I offend anyone because it is the God's Truth.

Chuck.

 

[dawallace45]

John

That is where people go wrong you don't compare gun crime from country to country you compare violent crime from country to country , it's like here in Australia , they talk about gun suicide going down since the Buy back but they don't tell you that suicide by other means has gone up to surpass it , people talk about gun deaths in American but when you really check it out and compare violent death from one country to another it's not all that different , doesn't matter if your shot to death , stabbed to death , beaten to death with a blunt object or doused with petrol and set alight , your still dead , if you look at the USA you will see that certain cities are more violent than others and if you look further it's mainly only certain areas in those cities , some of the places that are controlled by the ethnic drug gangs are extremely violent , a guy I used to exchange email with was a cop in a major US city in a area that was considered to be pretty much a war zone , he was called back into uniform to serve in Iraq , since he's left the military again he's gone back again as a civilian security contractor , he reckons that Iraq is safer than where he used to patrol and the money is better

If you look at the US as a whole you will find that most of it has a lower rate of violence than most of Australia and certainly less than places like the major cities in England

As for when people carry , while I don't have personal experience on it I have a long list of friends and acquaintances from the shooting forums I've been a member of for many years and I've asked that same question of them , their answer is that when they first started carrying the size pistol they carried pretty much decided that as large guns aren't all that concealable in warm weather for many people depending on body type but as they got older and smarter they started carrying sub calibres like the .32ACP and .22 Rimfire and now they pretty much carry all the time except when it's not lawful to do so under the regulations of their concealed carry permit

Mick

A old mate of mine was a Prison guard in Victoria for many years and knew Read well , he reckoned that curled up in a foetal position and foaming at the mouth wasn't all that unknown for him as he some times suffered from seizures and was after all clinically insane , he also reckoned that Read has saved him and a few of the other guards from severe bashings a few times over the years and because of that he had a lot of time for him

As for cashing in on other crims stories , he has said many times that the books are fiction and made up from stories he knows and some of the details are changed to protect the GUILTY ,

Other than the fact I find him funny I don't have a opinion either way , he's very entertaining in his books and interviews but not at all sure I'd like him for a neighbour ,LOL , but when it's all said and done the man is a vicious violent psychopath, and probably won't be a problem for any one with in the next year or so , seems he contracted HepC in prison and needs a Liver transplant but won't go for one as he reckons he doesn't deserve it

David

 

[john the pom]

You mean them people that come from ATLANTIS ! :shock:

 

[bearridge]

Naw....Atlanta. :wink:

 

[islandpiper]

Well, it's been a helluva long week, as this is the first time i have gotten out to the range to break in that new KelTec .32.

In short: it shoots straighter than i make it. It is loud, in a high-pitched, focused sort of way. Operated very well mechanically, no issues in terms of FTE or FTF's. Comfortable recoil, enough to remind you it is a real weapon. I'm sure after being carried in my jeans pocket since September it is full of lint and dust. I left it that way before use to "prove" it would work full of lint. Now, I'll clean it.

Overall, a good investment. Good carry-weapon. Stops paper plates in their tracks, with luck that will be all it is ever called upon to do.

Piper

 

[dawallace45]

Piper

The KelTec .32 seems to be a very popular carry gun for the USA , probably the most popular carry gun amongst most of the people I know from the gun forums , seems like they all carry them and reckon they are reliable , how many rounds you put through it so far ? , I always worked on the idea that I wouldn't even use a gun for serious competition until I had put more than a 1000 rounds through it

Got to admit that if I lived in the US I'd have one too , but then I'd also have a Beretta 71 as well , still miss that gun

David

 

[islandpiper]

David, i ran a mere 36 rounds......costly little buggers......it fired the first time and the last time and all of them in between. I am figuring it will fire the 1-2 rounds i might ever need to fire in defense. I'll go back and warm it up again in a few months.

Piper

 

[dawallace45]

Piper

The cost is a reason some of the people I know carry a 22 , the cost of ammo is low and they can practice as much as they like

I remember many years ago Massad Ayoob wrote a article titled " Friends don't let friends carry mouse guns " the gist of the article was the a .38 sp with +P ammo was the smallest real gun that should be carried ,

Some one not long after wrote a article rebutting it and basically said that in the real world of carrying a gun for protection the distances would be only a few feet and not all body types and climates lent them selves to carrying a large gun and that not all people had the money and interest to shoot lots and lots of ammo to keep their eye in and it was easier for some one to learn to shoot well with a 22 or a 32 than for some of the larger calibres

This gentleman also reckoned that if a person wasn't already reasonably proficient with a pistol they should practice until drawing and firing and hitting their mark become as natural and smooth as can be , [ this I agree with ] I think I have a idea what he was getting at as I've seen many superb pistol shots fumble and screw up the first time they try and shoot IPSC , one gentleman in our club who used to wipe the floor with pretty much every one when it come to shooting silhouette and field pistol , [ he was one of the best in Australia ] was DQ'd the first three times he shot IPSC , once he dropped the gun while drawing and twice he shot into the ground only a few feet in front of him , I would think that drawing a gun in a life or death situation would be a very stressful situation , far more stressful than a IPSC match

The gentleman who wrote the rebuttal seemed to think that from his research it was easier for a not extensively trained person to hit with a small calibre rather than a large calibre like a .45acp in a high stress situation , I really don't know if this is true or not as from my own limited experience as a IPSC range officer and also running a Practical Pocket pistol match for many years I found that if people didn't practice drawing and firing with their gun until it become second nature they screwed up in competition , but this guy seemed to think that for some one with out the time , money and interest to practice extensively a half dozen .22's or .32's in the chest cavity was better than a miss with a .45 , [ no one will argue that a miss with a 45 is better than a hit with a 22 but it still seems to me that a certain amount of practice is needed even if it's only drawing and firing using dummy rounds backed up with live practice now and then ]

Not having a go at you Piper , for all I know you may be a mastergrade shooter

Still not at all sure I agree with some of that but one thing I did agree with was that because of climate and such a 22 in the hand was better than a .45 back home in the safe
David

 

[oldsparkey]

Good shooting takes some time and a lot of ammo , no matter which way you do it.

I was one of the original 5 members on the Sheriffs pistol team and we shot competition against anyone that wanted to challenge us. There mistake.

Not saying we had a edge but we used the S&W Model 19 or 66 in the 4 inch barrel , that's a 357 mag but we practiced with 38's (wad cutters). The wad cutters were what we used in the matches since they punch a perfect hole in the target.

We did practice a little , about 500 rounds every two weeks. That sure helped to get the draw , point and shoot down rather good and from the 25 yard to 50 yard line it was using the sights but rattling the shots off since all matches had a time limit to fire all the rounds in.

Shooting black silhouettes is something totally different then shooting at a moving person , a lot different.

Usually that is close up and personal shooting , the average is less then 7 yards and normally a lot closer. It does not take a target pistol or a ton of ammo to be able to hit your target when it is that close. Plus you sure are not going to use the sights , that is just nothing but a point and shoot situation.
If you can point and shoot at 15 yards then anything closer is a cake walk.
All it takes is a cool nerve , steady hand and the ability to follow threw , no need for a fast draw , just a good solid pinting at the target.

One way we use to train the guy's was to have them take the pistol and put the trigger finger along side it and point at things..... You would be surprised how accurate that finger is when pointing at something , near or far. Then when they could use the barrel of the pistol that way , the misses dropped greatly and the scores went up.

Best way to explain it .. Remember when you were a kid with a BB gun , 1st you aimed and fired with every shot and after a while you could just point it and hit the target , even from the hip.

Chuck.

 

[dawallace45]

Chuck

Had a S&W66 many years ago but preferred the S&W28 , loved those guns , they fitted me really well , had several , mainly with the 6" barrel but my favourite had a 5" barrel , always changed the grips to Pachmayr Grippers , always shot my own cast reloads , generally a Keith style bullet around 170 gn at about 1300 fps

Used to shoot IPSC with it and also Steel Challenge from time to time , actually when I shot competition I'd generally enter the revolver division and the Semi-auto division as well

I started out shooting Metallic silhouette then went on to IPSC , Ten Pin match , Steel Challenge and then Practical Pocket Pistol , [ I wrote the match package for that one ] then later on shot Western action for a while as well as the others


David