Project #1

[Nockatee]

As mentioned in my intro, the basement will soon be filled with sawdust and the smell of epoxy and a craft much like this will appear.

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It is not a pirogue, but the finished product is sort of like the red-headed stepchild that doesn't really belong in any particular place other than with boats that will slip along in skinny water.
It will be 15' long and 36" across the wales and 30" across the bottom.
Pirogue like in dimensions (perhaps a bit more broad in the beam) and hopefully nimble when propelled with paddle or pole.
Construction will be quick and dirty. Four sheets of 1/4 in ply, outside chine logs, double wales and some glass on the seams and bottom. I am researching finishes that will be visually appropriate for the era (latter 1700's).
With this boat, think of places like Ebeneezer Creek and the Tupelo Swamp off the Savannah River. Or any place with black water (NO!, Not the kind that comes out of RV's
) like that.
Stay tuned for progress and pics.
Now let me see if the feet on the colander are tilted in the right direction...

 

[oldsparkey]

Interesting ... Very Interesting ... I would bet there are some duck hunters out there looking for a boat just like that. The redheaded stepchild from a Jon Boat and Pirogue marriage.

Chuck.

 

[gbinga]

It looks a little too wide to paddle, but would probably be very handy with oars. The plans show thole pins for oars (Thole pins are sort of primitive oar locks). You can see two pair sticking up from the gunwale on the side view. You would lay the oar between a pair and they would serve the same purpose as oar locks.

Wide as it is you could stand up and pole it when you were in a tight spot.

You guys that have paddled a lot - - am I right in thinking that a boat this wide would be unhandy to paddle? Or am I all wet about that?

 

[bearridge]

Paddlin' a john boat 'er any wide boat in a river with a paddle will be a pain. After 20 minutes everbody else will be a mile downriver. First time ya run inta a mess....downed trees, sharp bend, etc. yer likely stuck. Mebbe a long, lonesome walk ta town?

That iz how come the trollin' motor wuz invented. :wink:

regards
bearridge

If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free.  P.J. O'Rourke

 

[Jimmy W]

I've done a lot of paddling in my Bluehole OCA. I think that it is 35 inches wide and I often paddled it solo from the middle. A punt 1 inch wider shouldn't be that much harder to reach over the sides.

 

[bearridge]

Friend Jimmy,

Mebbe I caint read them drawings, but I figgered it wuz wide in the front, middle 'n ass end....like a john boat. If it iz, it will be a booger on flat water. If it iz thin like the OCA (front 'n rear), it will still be a booger on flatwater, but a heap eazier'n a john boat. If ya aim ta keep up with the fellas in the pirogues 'n flatwater canoes 'n yer in a OCA 'er a john boat, ya better swing that paddle like John Henry swung hiz hammer. :wink:

regards
bearridge
bodine gulag paddlers

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.  Winston Churchill

 

[Jimmy W]

The way I read the drawings, it looks to be about half as wide at the ends as in the middle. If it will be 36 inches wide that would make the ends about 18 inches. I never said that it would be as easy to paddle or as fast as a pirogue or a good canoe. But like Nockatee said, it should do for paddling something like Ebeneezer Creek. Besides, he already said that he is also planning on building a pirogue.
When I wuz a little partner, I spent a lot of time paddling jon boats and still enjoyed being on the water even if I wasn't going very fast.
My Aunt still talks about when I was visiting with them near Monroe, La. I would get up in the morning and head out in the jon boat. Then show back up at lunch for a peanut butter sandwich then head back out on the bayou till about dark. No one ever told me that the jon boat was too wide for me to paddle, so I didn't know any better.
Jimmy

 

[seedtick]

at the risk of starting another high level intellectual discussion on paddlin'.


1. there's lots of folks down here that paddle bateaus - they don't know you're not supposed to paddle them

2. bateaus ain't never gonna win a race with a kyak, but you can haul a lot stuff and get in and out anyplace without getting your feet wet

3. and probably most controversial, you don't have to paddle from the middle of the boat

 

[Nockatee]

at the risk of starting another high level intellectual discussion on paddlin'.


1. there's lots of folks down here that paddle bateaus - they don't know you're not supposed to paddle them

2. bateaus ain't never gonna win a race with a kyak, but you can haul a lot stuff and get in and out anyplace without getting your feet wet

3. and probably most controversial, you don't have to paddle from the middle of the boat

Seedtick wins this round!
I should have been more clear that the above illustration from Chappelle is for a larger craft and could be called "The Inspiration". Looks like it shows a beam of 4' 6" which certainly mo' bigger than the proposed punt.
See this link for the real deal...
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/p ... /index.htm
I was trying to pull selected pics from the page, but couldn't make it work.
This will most always be paddled by a two man crew and probably be loaded with camp gear and supplies. No racing here, just "easing" along.
Blocks for one set of thole pins will be built in for possible rowing some day.
The Pirogue will be used for solo paddling.
I like the idea of making the bow and stern narrower than shown on the link. The designer drew this a bit "boxier" than the original illustration for sake of easier construction, I think. Pinching the ends might give a more graceful look.
Any opinion on how to compensate for the change that might be created in the side panel dimensions by doing this?
Thanks for the great input folks!
Nockatee

 

[islandpiper]

Put one of those oriental swing-sweeps on the stern and go fast and easy.

A wide straw hat and sandals would add to the visual impact.

piper

 

[oldsparkey]

This picture ( From there web site ) makes me think of the boat the old timers used in the Glades and 10,000 island area of Florida for there gator hunting back when it was legal and afterwards when it was not so legal.

One of them "Totch " Brown ( Loren G. Brown ) used a boat like that in his gator hunting days here in the Glades and even in the Okefenokee Swamp. His boat was a 10 feet in length.
A good read is "Totch , A Life in the Everglades " from the University Press of Florida.

Click on this .... http://www.amazon.com/Totch-Everglades- ... 0813012287

Chuck.
PS. If you have ever paddled or want to paddle the Everglades area his book is filled with the history of that area. I have been to a lot of the places he lived and hunted.

 

[Nockatee]

Yep....

Just a bit longer and narrower..... 8)
I like the way his swag is tied up and stowed on the floor.
You can imagine a gator or hog lying there as well.
Killing Mr. Watson was a good-un. :wink:

Heading for Lowe's Monday on a plywood quest..

 

[oldsparkey]

Back in those days it was a different world. In reference to Mr.Watson I guess John Wesley Harden said it all when he said ... " I never killed anyone who did not deserve it".

Rumor had it Watson was on the run from Texas or that area because the law wanted him. Mr. Watson did have his 2 minute trial , sentence and execution at Smallwood's store on Chokoloskee Island as soon as he got on the dock and out of his boat , thanks to the locals.

Chuck.

 

[seedtick]

hey Nock,

The upsweep or rake on the ends of the punt or just the front end of a bateau is governed by three things:

1. the angle of the sides relative to the bottom
2. the way the sides are cut
3. how much you "pinch" the ends in

There's probably some three dimensional equation that defines all this but the old folks did it by trial and error until they got what they wanted. It's the same way that rocker is defined on a pirogue.

More angle relative to the bottom will give you more upsweep, the flatter the bottom of the sides are cut will give you more upsweep and the more you pinch the ends in, the more upsweep.

Follow some plans you like or play around with scale models. Here's a half size bateau - 10' long

 

[bearridge]

Fellas,

I reckon I'll try one last time so folks who paddle round in a john boat 'er a batteau kin settle down. A fella kin paddle dang near any boat, set in it anywhere he wants. If it iz jest one boat 'n yer on a lake 'er a river that iz kept purty clean of down trees 'n such, ya kin likely paddle near bout any kinda boat. On a one boat expedishun ya dont even need a clock. I jest dont paddle like that....so whatever I say dont have nuthin' ta do with that kinda paddlin'.

Lord knows the geezers dont race 'n it aint jest the tricky water. It iz paddlin' with a group. A raft paddles 'n ya kin set in it any dang place ya like, but ya caint keep up with the folks in kayaks, flat water canoes 'n pirogues unless ya jest like hard exercise. Some of the flatwater I paddle haz trees 'n tight spots. Sometimes one of the fellas makes it rain....hard....'n the water rizes, moves fast.....'n the river dont give ya long ta think.

That iz all I meant ta say. Ole Huck Finn paddled ('er poled) a log raft, back in the ole days before the U.S. Army begun ta mess with the river. Huck likely caint make it down Ole Man River on a log raft these days. Well, mebbe he kin, but the water would be movin' near bout twice az fast 'n the barges would run him down if he didnt keep a sharp lookout.

A canoe paddles best (solo) if ya set jest behind the center. I got no idea where the paddlin' iz best in any other boats....never run any personal tests. Paddle 'em if ya got 'em. :mrgreen: Anybody run a solo canoe test 'n come up with a different outcome, fine....I'd like ta hear bout it. :wink:

regards
bearridge

Now Ned, them whores are going to tell different lies than you.  And when their lies ain't the same as your lies....well, I ain't gonna hurt no woman.  But I'm gonna hurt you.  And not gentle like before...but bad.  Little Bill Daggett

 

[oldsparkey]

I would guess what Bear is saying is the same thing I think about.

A Jon Boat or anything wide and long can be paddled , ya could paddle the Queen Mary if it was necessary. Any boat can be paddled on any water way if a person wants to. From the Spanish ships of old to even earlier the Vikings long boats ( Lord only knows about the area they conquered with them ) and everything between the two. One thing about it , it sure was not the back water areas where skinny boats are needed.

It just depends on the river you are paddling , open water , no problem , closed in with strainers , blow downs , sand bars , shallow water , weeds , mud without a lot of water and any other obstacles to go threw , over , under or around.

Then the native American craft or a modification of that which is designed to make it threw , over or around such obstacles is the only one that will make it without a lot of cussing and complaining.

Different waters do or does dictate what is the best boat to use , if they didn't then the Canoe , Pirogue and all the rest would of never been thought of. All of us would be building Keel Boats and using them and this discussion would of never happen.

I paddle waters where a Jon Boat would be stopped in it's track or wake after a few minutes but a skinny boat like mine would just stay with me. I can't stay with them in the open water but where I like to go , they sure as hell can't go.

Different boats for different reasons , even the shallow water boats. Ya can't fit a fat man threw a narrow opening and like in life the fat man will require more paddling to go where the skinny guy goes. There is no contest there.

Two guys in separate canoes with trolling motors tried to out run me when they noticed me on the Econ about a 1/4 mile behind them , going up stream. I was in my kayak and I caught them , passed them and was taking a break on the bank several bends up river when they showed up later and wanting to know where the motor was in the kayak. I handled them the paddle and said there it is.

Different boats for a different use and all of them can be paddled , some are a problem to paddle and some are relaxing. I have paddled both in my life but never the Queen Mary ... I might not be the lightest light bulb in the pack but there is no way I would try paddling her. :lol:

Chuck

 

[gbinga]

I think that if you want a wider, more stable, higher capacity boat (which is what the picture seems to show) then you should consider using oars instead of paddles. You put more horsepower into the water, and you solve the fishtailing problem that happens when you try to paddle a wide boat.

Rowing is fun. My first two homemade boats were set up for oars. And if you get in a tight spot where you don't have room to use the oars, you probably won't be moving very fast anyhow, and it will probably be shallow enough to pole.

Of course the fellow mentioned that he is going to build thole pins into the boat, so he can try it both ways. Might want to consider making them removable, rather than the old style that are more or less integral to the side of the boat. If they are permanent, then it seems like they will be badly in the way of a paddle if you end up using one.

I used single thole pins on my two rowing boats. They are just 3/4" oak dowels mounted into a hole in a block set there for the purpose. You lay the oar just aft of the pin, and lash it to the pin with bungee cord. It works just as good as a metal oar lock.

 

[ribor]

Hi,
I will be short ... I don 't speak enough well in english to be long (when I try, nobody understand me! :roll: (1))
If I understand well the post, I think you want to make something more or less like this:
http://www.angelfire.com/ego/lewisboatw ... anu8_a.htm
I have the same kind of project, and partly the same questions... then I am really interested by this post... I tried to post a thread in an other good canoe's forum (SOTP)... but it was difficult for me to explain it!
If I go on (and begin to build one) I will post more... pictures (and only few words)
Ribor

(1)Some people say that even in french nobody understand me ;-)

 

[jimsong]

Relax ribor, jump in with both feet. No one else speaks English here anyway. Just boats and boat science. Glad you came.

 

[Kayak Jack]

Ribor,

The "Boat Science" to which he referred is a code. You have to understand that we refer to only the first two letters, "B" and "S".

If you have any familiarity with American (not English), you will recognise the BS and what we mean. If not, click on "email" at the bottom of my post and I'll tell you.

In the meantime, welcome aboard.