Toto in progess

[Anonymous]

Hey, guys/gals! I am new to this paddling thing but I have built a 14ft row/power (6hp) boat before. I am currently building a Michalak Toto. By the way, is that a canoe, a kayak, or a pirogue? Probably not quite any of the above but I noticed that is how the forum's topics are arranged. Anyway I am in the Birmingham, AL area and the pictures of the building of the Toto are at:

http://community.webshots.com/user/aub77

--Wayne

 

[DocMobius]

Wayne

Nice boats, I like that Toto as it looks like it will be a fun boat.

I'll be in your neck of the woods tomorrow about 4 or 5 am. Comming thru on 20 from Jacksonville Florida and headed to Wasola Missouri. Over the next few months I'll be moving up to Missouri.

I spent 4 years in Anniston as a Army MP. Very nice there and great fishing. Love them Foothills.

Great job on your first boat and good luck with Toto. ( though I doubt you need it) And Welcome to the Forum, I look foward to your post.

DocMobius
Paddling School for the Feebleminded

 

[Kayak Jack]

Wayne, Interesting looking boat. My thoughts are:

A square ender can't be a kayak. More like a run-about boat maybe. What ever you end up calling it, you can be proud of it.

High bow likely to blow down wind and the boat may lee-cock in a side wind.

Deep vee cross-hull configuration will provide much secondary stability, may be tender in primary stability.

As Down Under Dave advised, I'd also recommend a very small diameter hole in your bulkhead near the top. Otherwise, when you seal on the deck (I'm assuming that's what you intend to do, from the looks of what I see) the air chamber can breathe. Also, as Dave suggests, I'd have a removeable hatch in the bulkhead to allow drying when the boat isn't in use.

And, finally, your cat cage is about to fall off of the Coleman 2 burner stove up there on the rack.

 

[Swampy]

Wayne what a beauty!
Jack was wonderin what was inside the frig next to the cat carrier....
Several items please:
1) You use the exsact spring clamps that I use. Those plastic ones... I didn't fair well with mine or the largest of them.. they clamped to much and squeezed out the epoxy... this caused a "starved" joint. I had to use brass screws to secure the gunnels...
2) 1/2" ply bulkheads?
3) I like the lines of the boat, and especially the sequence of sides to sides to bottom... How did it go with you there?
4) Jack's right about the stern cut short and a transom added...
here is a glimps that I am looking at strongly...
http://www.clcboats.com/boats/millcreek ... 72b6f799e/
It's called the Millcreek and a kayak.... its bottom is more flat midships than yours... will take on heavy winds and seas ( good for me in crossing heavy seas in lakes)
Other than the high bow and the cut stern it's the same boat.
5) what are her numbers? ( weight/draft/ect)
Welcome to the forum!
swampy

 

[Anonymous]

Okay. First off, the dog (Shetland Sheepdog) is getting pee-oooo'd that her carrier is being called a cat carrier.

Two things in that fridge -- beer and more beer.

1. Spring clamps - too much pressure -- did you use some wood flour in with the epoxy? That will help the glue starvation problem no matter what the pressure.

2. The is 1/4inch ply but it doesn't matter. The bulkheads are temporary with the exception of the one just before the transom. It will be decked over from that bulkhead to the transom.

3. Yes, it has what Jim Michalak calls side planks, bilge planks and then the bottom plank. I screwed up the sequence of cutting and attaching them and made it unneccesarily difficult. For some reason I thought the plans called for the bottom plank to be cut oversized and then fit to the boat. I was actually supposed to attach the side planks and the bottom plank and then cut the bilge planks (the ones in the middle) to fit the boat. Epoxy and fiberglass can fix a multitude of sins.

4. I am planning on putting a flange and screw on/off port (deckplate) in the permanent bulkhead. It should be airtight for floatation purposes when the deckplate is in place.

5. It should weigh about 50 pounds when finished. It is 13 feet long and I think about 30 inches wide. Some have built them to weigh about 40 pounds but I figure mine will weigh a bit more. I glassed the bottom plank and have epoxy encapsulated it too. I hope it doesn't get much heavier than that! Draft...I have no idea. Trying to decide if it will need a skeg. I am thinking a small one. Got to go look at the plans and see what Jim recommends. I probably ought to read the plans more often.

Doc: I need to attend your school.

--Wayne

 

[Swampy]

LOL Wayne! Your gonna get the same "title" I have for my "signature" at the bottom of these posts! "What instructions?"
Yep! I used no woodflour in the gunnels... pure starvation in those things.

Beware that Jack is now onto what's in that frig! Look for him durring heavy rains... his kayak he claims has less draft that it's comparatable to water spider... it doesn't break the surface...

One of the faults that procasternators such as I am, is that we read to many articles, books, posts on boat building and get some of the instructions and steps out of kilter. I cut my bottom to fit INSIDE the hulls... hence the "What instructions?" tag.. oh well...

Let us know how she paddles! My test run will be next week... I hope.... if not I'd better get my waders out for the trip to St Mary's River run in Dec!!! Chuck is gonna tie me to a leader and walk me the whole way! :shock:
swampy

 

[aub77]

If Jack can make it to my house paddling a kayak from just a mile away then I will buy him 10 cases of beer. (I live on Shades Mountain--well foothill but I guess Shades Foothill doesn't sound good).

Anyway, a few more pictures have been posted. The skeg has been added, I have done some fairing and sanding on the outside, and just applied some epoxy and phenolic microsheres for fairing on the inside. More sanding tonight!!!!!

http://community.webshots.com/user/aub77

Look in the Toto 2 folder if interested in the latest shots. By the way, is there a way to turn on the HTML option in this forum or is it locked out? My URL tags don't seem to create links when I post a message.

 

[Swampy]

Boat is coming along fine! You using micro ballones for fairing?
And, second, does you canoe carrier extend vertically also?
swampy

 

[oldsparkey]

aub77

Go to your profile section and then down to the Preferences and click on the Always allow HTML option ... two choices Yes & No. That is the only control area for it , that I can find.

Chuck.

 

[aub77]

Yes, using phenolic microspheres. Seems easy to sand. Kind of a dark purply red in color.

Yes the extender does go vertically a little bit. It has five vertical positions but certainly not enough to get level with the cab but I could put a good tilt on the boat. It is the one Harbor Frieght has on sale right now for $19.99. I think the regular price is around 39 but they put it on sale periodically.

 

[Swampy]

That beats the $52 I paid at Cabelas and their reg price is $79 ! It is made for the vertical lift and nothing for the eztention from the tail gate.

I've thought about micro balloons for fairing some crafts lines in their plans.
Thanks
swampy

 

[Kayak Jack]

If I ever again do any fillets, I'll abandon wood flour & use the microballons. More control & uniformity.

 

[Swampy]

they leave a white surface don't they from the glass? Not good for clear finishes?
swampy

 

[aub77]

You don't want to use the phenolic microballons for fillets. I think it would be weak. Kayak Jack: I assume you are referring to Cabosil (fumed silica). That tends to sag less than wood flour but it is white as Swampy says. A lot of people mix wood flour and fumed silica together for fillets. I used a mixture of wood flour and baby powder (talc). The fumed silica is better but it is so light and fine I think you probably ought to wear a respirator while using it. Maybe a pollen mask would be sufficent--I don't know. One great thing about having the baby powder around...it it good to sprinkle some on your gloves as you work. Keeps the sticky factor down.

 

[Kayak Jack]

You don't want to use the phenolic microballons for fillets. I think it would be weak. Kayak Jack: I assume you are referring to Cabosil (fumed silica). That tends to sag less than wood flour but it is white as Swampy says. A lot of people mix wood flour and fumed silica together for fillets. I used a mixture of wood flour and baby powder (talc). (SNIP)

You guys are way ahead of me here. All I'd heard about were (I believe) small glass balloons. Does that sound right?

I'm hearing that with filler that is non-absorbent, the epoxy remains more workable for a longer time. With wood flour, the epoxy is both soaking up & setting up simultaneously. Tough to keep up with.

 

[aub77]

The reason to use glass balloons is to improve the sandability of the epoxy. Wood flour, fumed silica or cabosil, talc, and milled cotton fibers provide bulk and improve the sagging (for lack of a better word) nature of fillets. The glass bubbles (from what I have read) would be higher strength than the phenolic microballons I used for fairing but would be of less strength than wood flour for example. Raka's page gives a good summary of these fillers:

http://www.raka.com/epoxyacc.htm

I read about this stuff way too much!

 

[Swampy]

Jack, think smaller surface area - slower set up. Why smaller batches of epoxy has a longer pot life vs a larger batch.

swampy

 

[aub77]

You could also pour the epoxy into a container with a larger surface area such as a paint tray. That wil slow it down. I haven't had it kicking off on me too bad even in small plastic cups. Maybe because I have never done it during the worst heat of the summer. I usually use the medium hardener and only mix about 6 ounces at a time.

 

[aub77]

Still no decking has been installed and I haven't painted it but I couldn't stand waiting any longer. I took the Toto out on a small fingerling lake near me today. This was my second day to double-paddle anything. My only other paddling experience was borrowing Rick's bateau.com "Cheap Canoe." Anyway, either due to the boat or my 100% increase in experience, the Toto seemed less tippy than the Cheap Canoe. It moved along quite nicely. I wish I had the experience with a more conventional canoe or kayak with which I could compare it. Just a couple of weeks to go before it will be finished I hope.

 

[Swampy]

aub77, I believe the craft that your paddling is the "standard" in which you judge others by. i.e. What you "feel" like in it and what you like / dislike will decide where you place it along that curve.
Then other canoes/kayaks will go on either side of the line you've drawn on the TOTO. I guess it's like your children... each one is special and each one is an individual... and I recon they all give ya a pain now and then. :wink:
Good going on the TOTO! We'd love to see some pictures of her as soon as ya can get some.
swampy