NorthWind Finally.....

[beekeeper]

I have always posted the good along with the bad. Well I have a problem, seems the first four feet or so of the fiberglass was contaminated or something. About every 12 inches or so i have a stripe that did not wet out properly. It is very uniform in the distance and shape of the area involved so it has to be a problem with the glass. I have............

I feel your pain. I noticed you wet the unfinished wood so you could see how it would look finished. Could this have caused your problem? I once wet strips of oak to help them bend. I glued them together with epoxy, wood flower, and silica. They held for a few days and then seperated. It may not have caused your problem, but I would not chance it. Wet or green wood can do strange things as it drys.

beekeeper

 

[Darrells]

The wood was soaked with hot water to swell the brad nail holes closed. i have done this on all stripped boats and decks without any problem. Just give a few days to dry before glassing. The way the pattern was on the glass it was diffently a problem with the glass. It had a white strip every 12" or so which would correspond with the same place on the roll every revolution.

 

[beekeeper]

OK. I didn't realize you had figured out the cause. I was just guessing.
I built my pirogue stapleless and did not know about wetting the boat to swell the wood. Won't the holes open back up, when the wood drys? Just seems like a good idea to have the wood as dry as possable befor sealing it with epoxy.

beekeeper

 

[Wannabe]

Bee,
If I understand it properly, epoxy displaced water. Is that riright or wrong guys?
Bob

 

[beekeeper]

Bee,
If I understand it properly, epoxy displaced water. Is that riright or wrong guys?
Bob

:? Bob, I'm not sure I understand what you are asking. My idea was that the wood could have been wet when the epoxy was put on and this caused the problem with the glass. Darrells said it was a contamination or problem with the glass. I offered this thought because of my experance with epoxying the wet batter board strips. I don't know if epoxy will displace water. After my experance with wet wood and epoxy I don't want to chance any problems with wet or damp wood, and epoxy.

I then asked about the wood drying and the brad holes reopening. Seems to me if the holes don't open back up, then the wood is still wet. I am not saying this to argue that it was what caused the problem.

Does anybody know how much the moisture content of wetted wood rises, or how long it wood take it to redry? Would it dry to kiln dried standards or air dried. I would think air dried only. I know that air dried wood even sealed(epoxy) will dry more if stored in a climate cntrolled space.

Probably need someone with more wood drying knowledge than me to chime in. I only ask the questions. :roll: seedtick or swampwood help?

beekeeper

 

[tx river rat]

Bee
Nail holes want open back up,
when you wet wood it lets the wood go back to its original shape , you can steam a gunstock that has a dent and it will come back out. Nail holes are not drilled they are forced into the wood
so water lets them return to there original position. There is another benefit from wetting wood ,it stands the surface fibers up on every wetting letting you get a much smoother finish when you sand and epoxy.
As thin as a strip boat is a couple hours in the sun and you are bone dry ,are at least within acceptable limits, moisture content is never at 0 .
Ron

 

[Kayak Jack]

Epoxy is a moisture barrier. IE: it seals water either in or out - according to where the water is when the epoxy is applied.

 

[gbinga]

Does anybody know how much the moisture content of wetted wood rises, or how long it wood take it to redry? Would it dry to kiln dried standards or air dried. I would think air dried only. I know that air dried wood even sealed(epoxy) will dry more if stored in a climate cntrolled space.
beekeeper

In a kiln, you could dry wood to zero moisture content. But that would probably damage the wood, or at least create a situation where the wood would warp and twist when you brought it out into the world where the air is humid and the wood would immediately start soaking up moisture.

Realistically, wood moisture content ranges something like 5% to 15%, depending upon the environment it is in (furniture in an air conditioned house would tend to be lower moisture content, framing lumber would tend to be higher).

Kiln drying doesn't necessarily get the wood dryer, it just gets the wood to the desired range quicker.

Take a piece of wood and leave it in a particular environment for a while, and it will reach equilibrium. It might gain moisture content, or lose moisture content, depending upon the environment (heat, humidity), and depending upon how wet or dry the wood was to start with.

I guess the most important thing is to try to stabilize the moisture content at a reasonable level - low enough so organisms don't eat the wood (rot), and stable enough so that the item you built doesn't tend to tear itself apart from expansion and contraction due to changes in moisture content.

If you ever bought hardwood flooring from a seller who knew what he was doing, he would have cautioned you to let the flooring sit for days in the place where it was going to be installed. This was so that the flooring could reach equilibrium, and do all of its' shrinking or selling BEFORE you installed it. Install it when it is too wet, it will shrink up and give you gaps. Install it too dry, and it will swell up and warp.

Is that about clear as mud? ;o)

George

 

[beekeeper]

Thanks for the input George. I have asked my question in another post. Check here; viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8442.

beekeeper

 

[Kayak Jack]

You make sense here, George. thanks.

 

[WDfrmTN]

Does anybody know how much the moisture content of wetted wood rises, or how long it wood take it to redry? Would it dry to kiln dried standards or air dried. I would think air dried only. I know that air dried wood even sealed(epoxy) will dry more if stored in a climate cntrolled space.
beekeeper

In a kiln, you could dry wood to zero moisture content. But that would probably damage the wood, or at least create a situation where the wood would warp and twist when you brought it out into the world where the air is humid and the wood would immediately start soaking up moisture.

Realistically, wood moisture content ranges something like 5% to 15%, depending upon the environment it is in (furniture in an air conditioned house would tend to be lower moisture content, framing lumber would tend to be higher).

Kiln drying doesn't necessarily get the wood dryer, it just gets the wood to the desired range quicker.

Take a piece of wood and leave it in a particular environment for a while, and it will reach equilibrium. It might gain moisture content, or lose moisture content, depending upon the environment (heat, humidity), and depending upon how wet or dry the wood was to start with.

I guess the most important thing is to try to stabilize the moisture content at a reasonable level - low enough so organisms don't eat the wood (rot), and stable enough so that the item you built doesn't tend to tear itself apart from expansion and contraction due to changes in moisture content.

If you ever bought hardwood flooring from a seller who knew what he was doing, he would have cautioned you to let the flooring sit for days in the place where it was going to be installed. This was so that the flooring could reach equilibrium, and do all of its' shrinking or selling BEFORE you installed it. Install it when it is too wet, it will shrink up and give you gaps. Install it too dry, and it will swell up and warp.

Is that about clear as mud? ;o)

George

Yup. When building, we always tried to leave our materials on site at least several days, unstacked and very loosely tarped to let it acclimate, unless the stuff came locally.
We got one stack of spruce rafters delivered on while we weren't there, came from outta town. The guy just slid 'em off the skid-bed. When the sun hit 'em they warped like hell. We had to wet 'em, then stack dry 'em in the barn to make 'em usable again.

 

[Darrells]

Work is finally slowing down some so I have had a little time to get back to work on the NorthWind. I finished sanding the interior to night and layed the fiberglass in the boat.

It was still early so I said what the heck and started epoxying the fiberglass. It feels good to finally have time to get back to boat building.

 

[Darrells]

The third coat of epoxy set up well today in the heat. I reinstalled the forms in preperation for stripping the deck, which I will start tomorrow evening or Monday. Went to Lowes this evening and found some really nice Cedar that has a good color. I am running several different patterns through my head that I think will look nice on the deck. I just have to settle on one and get started.

Interior Finished:

Most of the forms reinstalled:

 

[Darrells]

Got the rest of the forms set inplace and put blue tape on everything I don't stuck with glue.

Got the first six strips layed down. The first few are always the hardest, they have to be perfect because all the other are layed against them. They went down pretty easy, I had to make a couple of adjustments but nothing major.

With these down I should make a little progress tomorrow evening.

 

[JEM]

That deck radius had me a little concerned but it looks like you managed it well.

When I publish these plans, I'll probably note that it's not the ideal boat for a 1st time wood-strip builder.

 

[Darrells]

I scratched my head for a while thinking about.

 

[Darrells]

Where the hull transitions to the deck is a pretty tight radius. I tried several different ways to close the gap of the first hull strip and the first deck strip without succes. I finally decided to run the first strip down the boat while keeping the gap even over the entire length of the boat. I then cut a wedge out of white pine and glued it in place. This is not a design flaw it is just the way Seawind was designed and Matt stayed to true to the orignal design.

Before sanding:

After sanding:

I started stripping the deck and forgot to take ppictures of progress, but I have three more panels so I will get some more pics.

 

[JEM]

That deck radius is more for easy assembly as a fiberglass boat. When I drew this for the 1st person who wanted to take a crack at building it, I drew it with an easier to assemble deck. The builder had a fit when he saw the sketches because it didn't look enough like the boat that inspired my design, the Sea Wind.

I think you handled that radius quite well, Darrel. I bet that will be a nice accent that is pleasing to the eye when it's all said and done.

 

[Darrells]

I had time to make some progress this evening. I finished sanding the front deck and started laying out the strips for the rear deck.

While waiting on the glue to dry on the first set of strips on the rear deck I went ahead and put a pre-coat of epoxy on the front deck just to seal it from stains and such until I am ready to fiberglass the entire deck. It is amazing what a difference it makes went wet out with epoxy. You finally really get to see what it is going to look like.

From this:

To this:

In the previous update I mentioned having to make a wedge to close the gap on tyhe first and second deck strips. It worked better than I could have hoped.

From This:

To this:

More to come tommorrow.

 

[Darrells]

I finished all of the strips tonight. Now on to sanding and fiberglass.

She's long.