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SS&G No Plans Again!

beekeeper

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
1,675
37
What is the "dowel/epoxy method" to strengthen the end joints of the sides, you speak of?
 

beekeeper

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
1,675
37
"While the glue dries, it’s time to think about the tumble homes.I spent some time trying to bend strips around the forms, just too much compound curve, the strips kept breaking.So I’ll get a rough shape with cardboard, then start with a stripped panel."

How wide are your strips? The curve does not seem excessive. Straight "wide" strips in a panel will work. but will not have the flowing lines of the bent strips. If the boat is a working boat, painted, or you want and like them straight, it does not matter. I think you are showing how to build an easy, light weight boat.
I am enjoying your build.
 

oldbuffpilot

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2014
436
13
77
Central Kansas and Central Texas
The strips are 3/4 inch Wide And 1/4 inch thick. There simply no reasonable way for them to make that Compound bend. On the little version of the water moccasin And the lucky kayak I had to cut the tumblehome strips down to 3/8.
1567

Lucky kayak tumblehome
 
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oldbuffpilot

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2014
436
13
77
Central Kansas and Central Texas
Right after church I hit the shop full of energy, surprise I ran out of steam about 3hours later. Thankful, I got some good work done early.I planned on using the table to lay out the tumble home panels, so the boat was outside in the sun. I was able to fair the edges of the keel finishing as the epoxy set up.

I thought I’d share how I use “craft sticks) to work the fillet material. Cut the stick on the bandsaw then bevel the edge for a clean up tool.


I traced the proposed tumble home shape on the plastic covered table, then started gluing the strips into panels. Completed most of one panel and was done for today.

More tomorrow
Andy
 

beekeeper

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
1,675
37
After seeing the panels shape drown on the table I see how much it curves.
The cut back on the ends of the tumblehome keeps throwing a mental block. Not saying you should, but do you think the strips would bend on the table if they came to a point on the stem? Sometimes if we want a certain feature we have to do what it takes even if it is harder.
Have you considered stripping the tumblehome on the forms? They would probably make the bend not confined to the flat table.
 

oldbuffpilot

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2014
436
13
77
Central Kansas and Central Texas
Thanks for the idea And the suggestion I had not considered that but was thinking about one of your boats where the tumblehome stopped at the Deck. I haven't found a picture that boat yet But I think I will consider that idea. I can build the tumble homes with 38 strips It is just that I had hoped to be able To plan a simple cedar strip pirogue that kids could build.
I am beginning to realize That is simple plywood Uncle John's Is the best project for youngsters,imagine that we had it right 30 years ago!
Thanks for your reply
Andy
 

beekeeper

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
1,675
37
Thanks for the idea And the suggestion I had not considered that but was thinking about one of your boats where the tumblehome stopped at the Deck. I haven't found a picture that boat yet But I think I will consider that idea. I can build the tumble homes with 38 strips It is just that I had hoped to be able To plan a simple cedar strip pirogue that kids could build.
I am beginning to realize That is simple plywood Uncle John's Is the best project for youngsters,imagine that we had it right 30 years ago!
Thanks for your reply
Andy
This one, maybe? https://www.southernpaddler.com/community/threads/new-boat-build.8688/
 

oldbuffpilot

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2014
436
13
77
Central Kansas and Central Texas
That's the boat I was looking for. The deck lines are a little more complicated than I had remembered. It sure fits the boat good, I need to think about it.
Spent a lot of time waiting for epoxy and titebond to set. I usually try to time the set up and wait to occur overnight. Going to rehab three times a week is making that more difficult. the brighter side progress is going on! The second tumble home panel is glued up and drying over night.



The second round of filling holes, cracks, etc, is done and will be ready to re sand tomorrow.You can see there is a lot to clean up.



Since I need the table for the tumble home glue up I needed to move the boat in and out of the shed because of rain, so I put the center form back in. If I need to put forms in after the holes are filled I use the hot glue gun. Also mask the boat so the dribbles don't make a mess. I’ve found this works good and come off with a tap on a putty knife.



More tomorrow,

Andy
 

beekeeper

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
1,675
37
The deck is not rely very hard to do. Basically a very large breast hook with a plank (panel) attached to the rear edge. The ends are shaped to support the tumblehome panel the same as a rib (vertical support) you would need at that spot if the tumblehome went to the stem. Seedtick once had a tutorial about fitting breast hooks. I'm sure stitch and glue will be easier.
The deck was over built to accommodate a troll motor if needed. I was thinking of your Water Moccasin boats so popular in this area.
I had a question about the stem dowels embedded in the epoxy, but the pictures may have answered it. They are completely covered, correct?
 

oldbuffpilot

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2014
436
13
77
Central Kansas and Central Texas
After seeing the panels shape drown on the table I see how much it curves.
The cut back on the ends of the tumblehome keeps throwing a mental block. Not saying you should, but do you think the strips would bend on the table if they came to a point on the stem? Sometimes if we want a certain feature we have to do what it takes even if it is harder.
Have you considered stripping the tumblehome on the forms? They would probably make the bend not confined to the flat table.
The deck is not rely very hard to do. Basically a very large breast hook with a plank (panel) attached to the rear edge. The ends are shaped to support the tumblehome panel the same as a rib (vertical support) you would need at that spot if the tumblehome went to the stem. Seedtick once had a tutorial about fitting breast hooks. I'm sure stitch and glue will be easier.
The deck was over built to accommodate a troll motor if needed. I was thinking of your Water Moccasin boats so popular in this area.
I had a question about the stem dowels embedded in the epoxy, but the pictures may have answered it. They are completely covered, correct?
Yes the dowel is against the epoxy seam that joins the sides then embedded in epoxy mix.
 

Kayak Jack

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
13,838
141
83
Okemos / East Lansing Michigan
I’m thinking that the dowel doesn’t really need to be any thicker than, say, 3/8”? It adds a lot of flexible strength, and is lighter than thickened epoxy. Dowel does not have to be buried out of sight. Might be easy to ger carried away there?
 

oldbuffpilot

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2014
436
13
77
Central Kansas and Central Texas
Today I pulled the rough shape tumble home panel off the table, pulled out a bunch of 23 ga pin nails, that was holding the glued strips in place then cut out both tumble homes using the cardboard pattern made previously. here is the cut out panel.


I like to use the circular saw to cut out the panels, I can do it more accurately, and faster than with the jig saw. I adjust the blade to go through the material by one tooth, so not much of the blade is in the kerf.


My technique is to cut ¼ inch outside the line, then refine the panel with the belt sander or a sanding stick. Consistently cutting ¼ “ from the line is difficult so I mark the saw with a sharpie to make it easier
When I work with reliable plans like JEM, I cut on the line then fair with a sanding stick.


Hopefully tomorrow will be fitting tumble homes, still thinking about that!

Andy
 

oldbuffpilot

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2014
436
13
77
Central Kansas and Central Texas
Yes the dowel is against the epoxy seam that joins the sides then embedded in epoxy mix.
Yes the dowel is against the epoxy seam that joins the sides then embedded in epoxy mix.
Beekeeper, Been looking at making the tumblehome so it could be bent out of normal 3/4 " strips. Not too concerned about this current build, but wold like to make some plans youngsters could work from. When it quits raining and I can get the boat off the table, I'll try some bending. I keep comming back to your suggestion here about the tumble homes comming to a point. I guessI may not understand the concept you're suggesting. My search skills on the forumn are lacking, but I'm guessing you have built a boat like you are suggesting? Thanks fo the ppatience and help.
Andy
 

beekeeper

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
1,675
37
The tumblehome panel needs to go all the way to the stem to make a point. If you did this on your current boat it would be too low at the ends because your sides are the same height at the stems as mid ship. Had you cut the side arc out of a board or panel the stem height would be greater than midship. You formed a panel out of strips with parallel sides. I shaped the sides on my "Truck Boat" build like that and the TH panel did not come to a point. Resembled the shape of yours. https://www.southernpaddler.com/community/threads/truck-boat.9289/
One function of the TH panel is to raise the height of the sides at mid ship.
If the depth of your boat is 10" with the TH in place the ends should be that or a little more depending on your taste. Hope this will help: