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The Wood is the Filling , Not the boat.

tx river rat

Well-Known Member
Feb 23, 2007
3,043
2
Waco Tx
#41
Well finally found the perfect build lighter than 3mm ply no epoxy or
polyester resin good clear finish so the wood grain can show thru
draws a lot of attention from above and below (ouch) no delaminating
very cheap to build.












This boat is built of plastic sheets like you put under concrete slab and are paddled and fished of off Florida keys
Different strokes for different folks
You can't build no bad boat.
Ron
 

Kayak Jack

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
13,012
68
81
Okemos / East Lansing Michigan
#44
Notice that he launched from a muddy bankwithout stones or rocks, and that he set the boat into the water - NOT on the bank.

With no flotation in the boat, one pinhole and he's going down. I wouldn't get more than 15' - 20' off shore with that boat, and not in anything deeper than my knees.

I would not let anyone that I liked use that boat.
 

bearridge

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2005
3,092
4
way down yonder
#46
hairymick said:
There is much more to building our own boats than just an attempt to save some money.
Friend Mick,

I know. I admire purty wood, but the best of the boats I seen ya'll build look like they belong in the livin' room instead of on the water. It aint that I dont care what my boat looks like, it iz jest that looks come way down on my list. I hope ya'll keep tryin' ta outdo yerownselves 'n post pichurs of yer work. On a rainy day tween loads of laundry 'n dishwashin', bickerin' over what kinda wood 'er glue 'er hull shape aint bad.....beats what iz on the tv. :wink:

respectfully
bearridge
paddlin' geezer canoe clud

Lord, the money we do spend on Government and it's not one bit better than the government we got for one-third the money twenty years ago. Will Rogers
 

jdupre'

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2007
2,015
3
South Louisiana
#48
Kayak Jack said:
My boats go up and over beaver dams - but I don't expect to look down and actually SEE a beaver. (Previous description not open for liberal interpretation.)
Jack, uuhhhhhhh, ................ No, it's just too easy. :lol: :wink:
 

dangermouse01

Well-Known Member
Sep 8, 2006
312
1
Palm Bay, FL (East coast)
#50
bearridge said:
I admire purty wood, but the best of the boats I seen ya'll build look like they belong in the livin' room instead of on the water.
Bearridge;
Wish I had thought to take a "before" picture to post of the bottom side of my Ches 16 on Friday, prior to sanding down all the scrapes & gouges. After 5 years, it is one well used piece of livin' room furniture. :lol:

DM
mike
 
Nov 15, 2006
8
0
Philippines
#51
I have a new design floating around in my head been eating at me for a couple months dangit. And I wonder how light you could build a boat out of styrofoam sheets with glass and epoxy covering.
I did this last year. I designed and built an 8 foot long paddle trimaran. I used 1/2 inch thick EPS or expanded polystyrene. This is the cheapest Styrofoam available -- it's the same stuff the cheap white coolers are made of.

The boat is very stiff and relatively lightweight for its size, but I ended up using more epoxy and glass than I wanted to, because a single layer didn't give it enough resistance against bumping it. Adding a second layer of glass really added a lot of impact strength, but it also added weight and expense.

I'm pretty sure the boat is heavier than if I would have used plywood -- and with plywood I could have skipped the epoxy and glass sheathing inside and out so it would have cost a lot less and taken less time to build. When I was ready to build the amas I just used 4mm plywood, because after building the main hull I didn't want to screw around with two more styrofoam hulls.

The good points are that the hull will never rot since there's no wood in it, and the boat is absolutely 'unsinkable' -- even if holed or sawed in half -- since the entire hull is an encapsulated foam-filled flotation chamber. But it was a real hassle to build compared with plywood, and I'm sure it cost twice as much as plywood with all that epoxy and glass in it.

All in all I'm happy with the boat (although it needs a skeg that I haven't added yet), but I'm sure a thin plywood boat with epoxy and glass only on the joints is a lighter way to build. Plywood is far faster and easier to work with too.
 
#53
Wood rules. Glass is to hold beer in a convenient shape

Made my early boats from door skin while I learned to design. went through the sketch-build-paddle-cuss-burn cycle until I had it figured out then switched to marine ply.

Actually, door skin was fine at first but the quality went down until it was unusable for anything except patterns. It can't be trusted!

I don't understand the fixation with glass and epoxy over the wood. Fine for a stripper where it provides the cross-grain strength that used to be provided by ash ribs, but IMHO not really necessary on a small ply boat. Mine are light enough that I can handle them with a reasonable amount of care: why would I want to bang around something I spent hours making?

say Hi! to Dora: -
 

jdupre'

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2007
2,015
3
South Louisiana
#55
AK, I'm kinda on your side. Didn't use glass/epoxy on my pirogue mostly because I wanted to build it the old way. I like the woodworking part of it. The fir marine ply I used is plenty sturdy with the weight to match. So I have to sand for 20 minutes and put a fresh coat of paint on it once or twice a year. I think it's held up pretty good for being in the water about 40 times in the last 15 or so months. As far as the weight, the 15# or so it weighs more than a glassed boat is made up by MY weight being a tad less than a lot of guys. Bottom line-- gross weight of me in my boat is about the same as most out there.

And she don't look half bad, either.


But I do think glass/epoxy makes a more durable boat with less upkeep.

Joey
 

jdupre'

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2007
2,015
3
South Louisiana
#57
Yeah, piper, I guess I should. After 40 or so trips out into the wilds, fighting logs, cypress knees, shell banks and concrete boat ramps, I decided to fiberglass the bottom and the sides of the pirogue. The douglas fir marine ply did yeoman's work and held up well structurally but not cosmetically. Douglas fir splits freely and can hardly be stopped without a coating of glass and resin.
The splitting mostly annoyed me because I could feel the difference in the drag through the water. I like to cruise at a good 3.5 mph, which is on the upper side of the speed range of a pirogue. At that speed I could feel the resistance.

I also wanted to experiment with fiberglassing because, as most of these guys will tell you, there WILL be another boat.

Joey
 

Kayak Jack

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
13,012
68
81
Okemos / East Lansing Michigan
#58
Re: Wood rules. Glass is to hold beer in a convenient shape

ancient kayaker said:
<snip> I don't understand the fixation with glass and epoxy over the wood. <snip>
Interesting, you can actually build a boat with just wood and no glass? How could it possibly hold up if the wood makes no difference and only the glass sandwich provides hull strength? He may be on to something here. :lol: :lol:
 

tx river rat

Well-Known Member
Feb 23, 2007
3,043
2
Waco Tx
#59
Mine are light enough that I can handle them with a reasonable amount of care: why would I want to bang around something I spent hours making?
If I did that I would be paddling around in circles,the water I paddle is rocky shallow and swift at times,gravel bars.
A coat of paint would last a trip. Heck I had to re fiberglass a few spot on the nose and keel of my T-V where I had worn thru the glass.
Different strokes for different places.
 

beekeeper

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
1,437
13
#60
I have reread these post and would like to add an idea. As a new builder I have struggled with the question of cheap wood vs. expensive. Seven times now. Five times I chose the cheapist, because I didn't want to butcher good wood while learning how to build, and because of my budget. My last boat was a strip build with solid wood and was a joy to build.
Luan can be made into some nice boats with the appropriate design, and some fiberglassing skills.
Marine grade plywood will work for those same designs and for many designs that don't require fiberglass.
I am not saying fiberglassing a boat is beyond a beginers abilities, but a boat that does not require any glass or epoxy is as simple as it gets. If a builder wants a boat design that calls for glass or he wants to learn how to glass that is fine.

My suggestion is to use neither luan nor marine plywood for a first build. Exterior grade plywood is strong enough to build a serviceable boat, without epoxy or glass.

"The wood is the filling, not the boat." is true for designs that require fiberglass for strength. I belive these are considered fiberglass/wood composite boats. Only new designs, and methoids of building require epoxy and fiberglass.
If a boat built out of wood will serve as a boat, without glass, then the wood is the boat.
Usually the first question people ask about my boats is "Is that marine plywood?"
I belive my five boats built with luan are telling me two things:
1. If you use luan fiberglass both sides.
2. No matter how much work, or how well it turns out it is still made with cheap wood.

Not disagreeing, just food for thought.
beekeeper