What Works / What Don't | Page 6 | SouthernPaddler.com

What Works / What Don't

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Kayak Jack

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
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Okemos / East Lansing Michigan
Generally, an open boat - a canoe - will be more susceptible to wind than a decked one. Wind seems to catch the upwind side, burble over into the boat, and then catch the downwind side too for a double whammy. Wind tends to curve over a deck with much less energy imparted to the boat, and therefore less effect on the boat - a lowered wind signature.

Arrangement of paddler and load can make a large difference. When wind turns a boat, it can turn it either into the wind (weather cocking) or away from the wind (lee cocking). Most boaters prefer the lesser of two evils, weather cocking. A boat that lee cocks tends to gain speed in a wrong direction and take off on its own, maybe even gaining speed. When a boat weather cocks, it tends to stall out, giving the paddler another chance to catch the situation and apply corrective actions.

Since a boat can be shoved around by both currents in the water, and currents in the air, paddlers are, at least partly, at the mercy of their environment. Boat design and paddler technique can mitigate unwanted effects of wind and water, but not eliminate them.

All that being said, I've found a decked canoe (or a kayak with some deck removed to enlarge the cockpit) to provide a pretty good start at a boat. One that lies flat in the water tends to be balanced to effects of both wind and water. Very little rocker provides good tracking across open waters, but lousy maneuverability on rivers. More rocker allows faster turns for maneuverability, but wobbly tracking across open waters.

An open canoe with a canvas deck that snaps on can provide a good compromise for ease of loading and unloading, lowered wind signature, and protection from waves and rain getting on gear. Canvas (nylon now days) decks can entrap a paddler, so design is critical.
 
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tx river rat

Well-Known Member
Feb 23, 2007
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Waco Tx
Location sensitive
Yep it is true for paddles boats and the motor you.
Baldy you have brought something into this conversation close to my heart. Paddles.
Going up river into shallow water is something I do pretty often . this and some other factors makes a double bladed paddle my choice. You can ask Chuck about me paddling back up a small rapid in 5 inches of water to pull Darrel of a rock, I couldnt have done that with a canoe paddle. Chuck and Bill got my attention with there paddling skill with a single blade, but in the high head winds the double did very well for me , and wind is a fact of life where I paddle Lakes are rivers. I have some single blades but never use them. I started with a 20 cheap plastic paddle,it worked, then I bought a better paddle but still fiberglass it was a big step up.
Then I bought a my first good paddle a bending branches ,weighs 24 ounces and help my paddling more than anything I have done. I have another paddle I am looking at and will buy soon , A werner in the blade configuration that is larger lighter and shorter.
A paddle that fits makes the paddling a whole new experience.
Continued in a few .
Ron
 
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tx river rat

Well-Known Member
Feb 23, 2007
3,043
2
Waco Tx
Biquits sausage and cream gravy was calling.

I dont want anything over 2 inches in rocker on my boats, I like the better glide ,tracking, straight tracing means speed and paddling efficiency About a year ago I started practicing heeling a boat ,wow what a difference,I can turn the boats on a dime ,correct my glide if in a cross wind and I can do this in a boat that has the amount of rocker that gives me the above traits.
In my head I have been thinking of a low sheer boat 7 ft cockpit bulkheads and a cordova decks with bungees or snaps. I need these areas to be minimum of 4 . 5 ft covered , so that means at least a 16 ft boat. It would be super light ,have the traits I want for tripping. and if I didnt like it I can always add decks.
We tend to take the paddler out of these talks on boats but the motor and our skill is the most important thing.
Ron
 
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oldsparkey

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
10,479
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Central , Florida
www.southernpaddler.com
tx river rat said:
You can ask Chuck about me paddling back up a small rapid in 5 inches of water to pull Darrel of a rock, I couldnt have done that with a canoe paddle. Chuck and Bill got my attention with there paddling skill with a single blade, but in the high head winds the double did very well for me.
Ron
Click to expand...

What Ron is saying is the fact , it did happen just that way. Using the double paddle he turned around and came back threw the rapids to help Darrel get unstuck. That was right after I got unstuck since Darrel was behind me in his boat. Ron eased in there like it was nothing , got the job done and backed out without any problems. I have to say the boat was a big help since he got into a area that two of us got stuck in without him getting stuck on the rocks.

Going parallel with the wind was not a problem but making a turn into it , Ron was paddling but not that hard and making an headway , I was paddling and would go backwards 2 strokes but with three strokes I could make a half a stroke forward. Bear was having the same problems ( with his canoe ) that I was having. Trust me , I was ( Guess I should say Bear and I were ) never so happy to see a sand / gravel bar and an area all the way up river against the wind that could be walked.... We lined the boats while walking the bar to the bend. There is no way on God's Green Earth I would of been able to paddle that distance , over a 1/4 mile directly into that wind. This ole boy would of set up camp and waited for calmer weather or beached the canoe and walked out to the road. Later the news on the TV that night , at the motel , said the average speed of the wind was 55mph and had blown a lot of trees over. A lot less then that previous night camping in it , they said up to 90 mph with tornadoes.

Those Texans do paddle in the wind , they just ain't right in the head :roll: but are some darn nice folks. :D

Chuck.
 
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oldsparkey

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
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Central , Florida
www.southernpaddler.com
Since we got over onto the subject of paddles ..........

If a new person would ask me about which is the most efficient I would have to say the double ( kayak ) paddle since you get more bang for your buck with it.

You ( almost have no air time ) have a blade in the water all the time moving you forward compared to the canoe/single paddle which has a lot more air time. Plus ( I will get flack on this ) It is easier to learn to use then a canoe/single paddle which has a variety of different strokes to learn if you are going to do it the proper way. Paddling on one side all day , not switching sides ever other stroke to maintain a straight froward movement.
( Air time is when the blade of the paddle is not in the water )

I can teach a person how to use the double ( kayak) paddle in no time ( less then 10 minutes ) but the canoe/single paddle takes several days to just understand how to do all the different strokes , not master mastering them just understanding them. Mastering them takes a good amount of paddling time but as one stroke is learned the others fall into place.

Chuck.
 
K

Kayak Jack

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
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Okemos / East Lansing Michigan
Kayak paddles are easy to learn - and easiest to learn wrong. Almost everybody picks it up and starts paddling by pumping their arms at the elbow. while this works, and produces results, it also produces arm fatigue and cramps. Keeping your arms, slightly bent for comfort, and stiff for power, uses your back muscles instead of arms. Back muscles are stronger than arms, last longer, and turning back and forth to keep shoulders parallel with the paddle helps body circulation while you are doing the forward stroke.

But, it can be a bear to learn to remember to paddle that way once you've learned it wrong.
 
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tx river rat

Well-Known Member
Feb 23, 2007
3,043
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Waco Tx
I learned to use a canoe paddle from a guy that was an instructor for the red cross. He was in a canoe 300 days a year and knew his stuff.
I guess he had the first stripper boat I ever saw. He also had an old town he was rebuilding.
He sort of took me under his wing to teach me ,I think I was about 17 at the time.
Ron
 
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oldsparkey

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
10,479
123
Central , Florida
www.southernpaddler.com
Kayak Jack said:
Kayak paddles are easy to learn - and easiest to learn wrong. Almost everybody picks it up and starts paddling by pumping their arms at the elbow. while this works, and produces results, it also produces arm fatigue and cramps. Keeping your arms, slightly bent for comfort, and stiff for power, uses your back muscles instead of arms. Back muscles are stronger than arms, last longer, and turning back and forth to keep shoulders parallel with the paddle helps body circulation while you are doing the forward stroke.

But, it can be a bear to learn to remember to paddle that way once you've learned it wrong.
Click to expand...

Upper body strength beats just the arms everytime.
When done right it is a good workout but no one knows that since they are having fun doing it. :lol: :lol: :lol: Actually you are using the mussels on the sides of the body , abdomen and the back while the arms are making the holding and pivot point for the paddle. Done correctly even the leg mussels are involved since the upper body is twisting.

Don't believe me .... OK , sitting there in front of the computer , grab an imaginary paddle shaft and position it like Jack said ...
about even with the desk you are or lower , your comfortable area for paddling.
1. Now bend your upper body forward and slightly sidewards to dip the blade in the water ..( Don't bend your arms ) .. it's in the water so slowly twist your upper body moving that paddle back like you do on the water.
2. Reverse it and dip the forward blade in the water and rotating your upper body pull it back so the other blade is ready to be put in for another stroke.
3. Don't rush it , some folks take a lot of time to be that coordinated. :lol: When it is done right then a slight modification can be made for the paddlers comfort but you will be using your upper body and not your arms for the power when paddling.

One mistake everyone makes when 1st doing it they want to choke the hell out of the paddles shaft and use there arms while staying upright. If they would just use a lighter grip and think of the one arm and side of the body doing the pushing while the other hand (closed) does the pulling you can even alternate between hands with an open fingers with the palm during the pushing phase . I know an extreme way to explain it but a good way to stop them from trying to choke the hell out of the shaft. As I like to point out , What did that paddle shaft do to you to make you want to choke it , lighten up and be nice to it.

With the canoe paddle you are using all of the upper body for the paddle movement and even the legs as braces when done right. Might call it a one sided ( modified ) kayak paddling way since you do have to lift the paddle out of the water. :wink: Just a different grip on the paddle with the hands doing different jobs and I still like an easy grip on the paddle shaft.

Ron...

I was paddling my Dad in an Old Town Wood and Canvas Canoe so he could fish and I could learn how to paddle a canoe before I was in the 2nd grade or even had a bicycle. I learned how to paddle and he got a lot of fish. :D
 
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tx river rat

Well-Known Member
Feb 23, 2007
3,043
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Waco Tx
Chuck
That was sure a pretty ole boat.
Kayak paddles are the same if you do the stroke correctly you use arms chest back abdominal muscles and your legs.
Baldy
Aint that the truth ,one nice thing about the Brazos not many boats. It is pretty to watch but I use part of that everytime I beach a boat if I can, I head into the bank ,turn and then because of the v bottom lean out toward the water then using a sculling stroke I scoot side ways right up to the bank. When I sit back up straight I am on solid ground.
In a race last year I was with two guys that were pretty much pros and I couldn't catch them on the straight s but in the blow downs heeling the boat I had so much more control that I would catch them at every brush pile . I finally passed them because of the boat handling.
Ron
PS not a bad looking strip canoe.
 
K

Kayak Jack

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
13,976
171
86
Okemos / East Lansing Michigan
That's what I chose too. I worked with a bent shaft some, but have trouble in a fast brace trying to figure out where stuff is. I seem to do less worse with a straight shaft, and no feathering. You'll like a Werner paddle; they're a class act.
 
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Wannabe

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2007
2,645
2
on the bank of Trinity Bay
Ron,
I bet that cost more than your boat. But then again there are people that will put a thousand dollar scope on a four hundred dollar gun. I can understand the latter so the former kind of makes sense also. Thanks.
Bob
 
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