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pirogue X two

beekeeper

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
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captaindoug said:
.....
The fishing trip was mostly that, fishing, one itty bitty trout, although I did get slimed releasing him. The anchor system worked well. The skiff has a small bowsprit and anchor roller, and with the swivel seat, by raising my legs, I can spin the seat 180 and cast across and down wind. The seat did not seem to raise the center of balance noticeably, and the few extra inches of height sure made it easier to get up and down. On the pirogue, we put an anchor roller on the stern so he can cast in the same way, across and down wind. The kayak paddles had mixed reviews. Much better for upwind propulsion, but the water dripping in our laps and water in the bilge leaves a lot to be desired. Down wind, we were able to use shallow angle strokes, but up wind digging in for more power, we got drenched. For any one interested in the relative performance between the skiff and pirogue, the pirogue is considerably faster. The son could put 100yds between us in 5 minutes. I am 60 lbs heavier, I had a big cooler with 6 drinks, 4 bottles of water and 10 lbs of ice, and the boat itself weighs 25 lbs more, plus added wetted surface with the transom. No big surprise i guess.
Thanks for the report. Your impressions of your two boats performances is similar to my thoughts about my son's boat and mine. I did notice when he paddled my boat he had less trouble keeping up with his boat than I did. 26yrs. younger and not as heavy may play into the comparison. I wonder what would happen if you and the ice chest moved to the pirogue? Do you feel like your skiff design works for your requirements? Mine is very similar in dimensions to yours and I would imagine similar in performance. Please keep posting your thoughts.

beekeeper
 

captaindoug

Well-Known Member
Nov 18, 2009
142
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69
Tampa Bay, Florida
I will have trade boats with the kid and test the theory: wetted surface, weight, youth and exuberance, to try to find a baseline to work from. I know for sure my boat is very Superior stability wise, and although the photos didn't turn out to prove it, even loaded as she was, my two inch waterline was still exposed, although just barely, so carrying capacity is good.
I can see how a small trolling motor would be the cat's meow. One of the local canoe/ kayak outfitters here in St. Pete had a 30lb freshwater MinnKota, and a 45lb thrust MK Riptide. Both had their shafts shortened (ouch !) for use on a kayak. Saltwater Riptide was under $300. Actually less than some of the carbon fiber/ kevlar paddles they were selling. The flats of Tampa Bay are fairly large and expansive, I can see how some alternative mode of propulsion could enhance my fishing experience. Less paddling, more casting = more catching...?

Everything is a compromise, more junk to load and unload, garage to van, to boat, back to van, back to garage.
 

JammyJ

Active Member
Nov 27, 2009
42
0
Belfast, (but from killyleagh)
captaindoug said:
Less paddling, more casting = more catching...?
.
Sounds like a good formula to me. :) although i'm learning paddling is part of the fun.
Trawling behind though can be very effective to when moving about.

Being mainly a fly fisherman... I remember reading somewhere regarding fancy casting:
"A fly in the water catches a lot more fish than a fly in the air"
 

captaindoug

Well-Known Member
Nov 18, 2009
142
0
69
Tampa Bay, Florida
I have to agree with you Jammy, we are having a blast with these boats, and after paddling for a little over 3 miles last trip, out and back against the wind, (uphill, both ways). Just kiddin', that's my dad's old joke about walking to school. Anyway, pumped up the old muscles a bit, that can't be a bad thing. Drifting down wind, we did have a bait out, over here we spell it "trolling", but it's the same deal. I tell my son the same thing, " you can't catch a fish without your hook in the water". I haven't checked your post lately, have you started your next boat yet?
 

captaindoug

Well-Known Member
Nov 18, 2009
142
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69
Tampa Bay, Florida
Row, Row, Row your boat...



I filled the gap between the inwale and the hull solid and put a top plate on that with the oarlock set in the top block. Epoxied it all up, and it seems plenty strong. The beam of the skiff dictated 5'-6 oars using the formula given by several oar salesmen. I should be able to keep up with the kid in his pirogue now! This setup cost more than a trolling motor, but I am still kicking and screamin' about getting the boat registered. You have to make an appointment with an FWC officer to inspect the vessel, no charge for that apparently, then go pay the state whatever they want, haven't checked yet, then go get some 2 1/2" letters and numbers to stick on the boat.
I am in the process of beefing up the transom, just in case I bite the bullet and put the motor on.

The green stuff in the corners is divinycell, and some 1708 biaxial over that. The transom is only tied into luan on the sides, so that ought to spread the load sufficiently.
I weighed my 55 lb thrust Minn Kota (37 lbs.) and the 27 series battery (56 lbs.), just another 100 lbs or so. I haven't sunk the boat to find out how much the boat's carrying capacity actually is, but I gotta believe with another 100 lbs. I would be getting close to the safe load limit. I have to keep reminding myself that this isn't a barge, and it can't do ALL things. It is just a little canoe, Wait,..... maybe I should build another boat for the trolling motor!
 

oldsparkey

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
10,446
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Central , Florida
www.southernpaddler.com
:lol: :lol: :lol: Never measure a boat when it is upside down........ I DID and Screwed up. The oars I should of gotten to be correct are the 5 1/2 ones .. not the 6 1/2 ones. It is amassing how the difference changes when you can see where to put the tape to measure it. :roll:
Will try them and who knows it might be a Magnum Rowing set up. Sometimes mistakes turn out for the best.

"O" Well if I don't make three mistakes a day I am not doing anything and that would be considered the 1st mistake. I tried my level best to locate the oar locks and sockets in Bronze for the skiff but all the ones I wanted came in the Zinc ....

Like you I am going to add the extra wood where a motor would be ( got the last coat of epoxy and glass on those pieces today) I will attach them with some screws since I am thinking they will have to be replaced sometime down the road. I do really like your idea on building up the corners between the sides and transom , that is a stroke of genius. :D

Still arguing with myself about the motor and having to register the skiff , they are going to get me for the tag on the trailer it will be transported on.

Chuck........
PS. I think it is there way to get even with me since I turned into a real Geezer and have a lifetime Free Fishing and Hunting license.
 

captaindoug

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Nov 18, 2009
142
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Tampa Bay, Florida
Chuck, when the zinc hardware gets rusty and beat up, West Marine has the same style you got, clamp-on and angle mount, only made in stainless. I got two oars that were definitely hand made. Two different diameters, so of course one oarlock fits nicely, the other had to be "bored out" some. Heck, I'm so used to doing everything twice, I just say, "Do it again, Doug". I don't even get mad anymore.
 

oldsparkey

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
10,446
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Central , Florida
www.southernpaddler.com
captaindoug said:
Chuck, when the zinc hardware gets rusty and beat up, West Marine has the same style you got, clamp-on and angle mount, only made in stainless. I got two oars that were definitely hand made. Two different diameters, so of course one oarlock fits nicely, the other had to be "bored out" some. Heck, I'm so used to doing everything twice, I just say, "Do it again, Doug". I don't even get mad anymore.
Old fashion craftsmanship and pride in what you make has been a vanishing breed except for the boats we make. The more I think about the motor angle the more disgusted I get.

Looking at the skiff it reminds me of a boat the old timers of iron men in wooded ships would of used when leaving there ship and rowing to shore to claim the land for the Queen or Country. The boats were also equipped for sailing if the ship ran into problems and they had to cover a lot of water to make it to land.

I think I will have mine done the same way , Paddle it , Row it or sail it and not resister it with the state. Later I might register it but the thing I hate is having to post those letters - numbers and letters on the bow........... That just wrecks the looks of it ( Makes it look to modern) . The other item is a couple of friends of mine want to fish the No Motor Zone over here which is some top notch Red and Snook Fishing.....To stay legal ........ NO MOTORS ARE ALLOWED IN THERE , of any type. . They can't go there since there boats have motors on them.

Looks like I will have a lot of good fishing , fresh fish suppers and fun in the future. :D :D :D Besides when ever I am on the water there is always a wind blowing , why not put it to use for our benefit. :D

Just takes a little more time to get the sail rig done , but time well spent.

Chuck.
 

captaindoug

Well-Known Member
Nov 18, 2009
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Tampa Bay, Florida
Oh thanks Chuck...! I thought I was just about done with this project. Now you remind me I am not finished with the sail rig. I have a neat little 14'-0 tapered hollow mast I found in a garage sale. Weighs less than 5 lbs. I think it is made of spruce. It has a roller sheave at the mast head, I could cut a bit from the foot of the mast, (so it fits inside the boat), maybe a loose footed sprit rig, or a gaff and boom. Although I would prefer a centerboard, due to the multi-functionality of the boat, lee-boards would be my choice.
 

oldsparkey

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2003
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Central , Florida
www.southernpaddler.com
I plan on going with the whole mess in one piece which can be clamped into the boat or just set aside in there when not being used. Even thinkng of two lee boards , having one on each side. The center piece would have the mast step in it which would contact the floor .... the lee boards would be attached with wing nuts so they are removable and stored inside the skiff like the sail and mast....... The same way it is pictured in the one pirogue I have posted on Uncle Johns site.

http://www.unclejohns.com/boat/photos.htm 7th one down for all the pictures.

From this ......................


To This...........


I'll let you and I guess everyone else reading this in on what I was thinking about from the very beginning........

A long time ago I was talking with Uncle John about the set up for sailing when we were talking about the skiff ( I plan on using the outfit I came up with for sailing the pirogues ) and he asked me about the rudder........ My answer was a simple one , Like me :lol: , an oar lock on the transom and use the oar as a rudder. I did tell him that would be the last step in the building process I would post and something different. :wink:

I have the oars to row with , a canoe paddle or two to ease along with so why not use one of the oars as a rudder. I will know if it works later on. They work for sculling a boat so why not as a rudder , can't see any reason why it would not work.

Chuck.
 

captaindoug

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Nov 18, 2009
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Tampa Bay, Florida
I got all the hardware, oarlock and socket, at West Marine. Both are bronze, cost just under $50.00 with the sales tax. I think you could maybe save a little online, but bronze hardware goes at a premium, 'cause it's MARINE grade. Any time you title a piece of hardware marine, RV, or for aircraft, it seems like they double the price and add $5.00.
 

captaindoug

Well-Known Member
Nov 18, 2009
142
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69
Tampa Bay, Florida
Kayak Jack once asked if I was going to do some sort of remote control for the proposed trolling motor so I could sit in the middle of the boat to keep her trimmed properly. That was always a consideration, but I have been looking around at the various methods out there to do that, and none of them really flips my switch, but I think I am getting closer to an idea on how I want to proceed.

First, I am going to cut down the carbon fiber shaft, now 42" to 24" so it looks something like this:

then make a side steering lever that functions something like this:

But since the motor tilts up and down, I can't have a solid steering linkage.

That means I would need to use some sort of cable linkage such as this:

Here is the part I like best, instead of the stick to actuate the linkage, use the control head off the Minn Kota as the steering stick, thereby getting a two for one function, (throttle, forward and reverse), and steering. I could probably get a little creative and remove the guts from the control head, build a nice little waterproof (resistant?) box around the controller bits and make it look something like this:

Whatcha think about that?
 

Kayak Jack

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Aug 26, 2003
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Okemos / East Lansing Michigan
Dougy, I like the ways you think. Your contoglements look almost well considered and thoroughly thought out. One "atta boy!' is hereby issued.

I have two-each teak and brass ships wheels, about 38" diameter, that I bought in Taiwan. A bit large for that particular boat, but nicely sized for something a bit larger, I suppose.
 

captaindoug

Well-Known Member
Nov 18, 2009
142
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69
Tampa Bay, Florida
An 'Atta Boy",....? Well, alright! Thanks for the encouragement, but the boat I run for a living uses 360 degree azimuth drives, sorta like joysticks I guess, I'm not sure I'd remember how those round, spokey thingy's are supposed to work. Like you said, probably a little large for this particular "Yacht" anyway.
All those pix are of course not exactly how my proposed unit would turn out, but I'm happy you could figure out the intent of my theorems and postulations.
 

Kayak Jack

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2003
13,976
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Okemos / East Lansing Michigan
A nice arrangement of levers and gears, pulleys and ropes, rods and cables, an inclined plane or two, ehh? Same stuff the mechanical revolution was built upon - the six, simple machines. But you did it so compactly and elegant-like, ergo the "atta boy".

Remember though, just one "Aw $h!t" wipes out all your "atta boys". :wink: